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Old 09-23-2009, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,771,962 times
Reputation: 24863

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All of the freedoms you cite come attached to a substantial amount of danger. You don't mention the chicken bus falling off the road because the government did not require the brakes to be inspected. You didn't mention that some of those goodies for sale may be contaminated with very toxic bacteria because the kitchens were not regulated and inspected. Or the water supply could be contaminated because the private owner didn’t bother with disinfection.

All the suffocating regulation you complain about are the result of somebody creating and/or selling things that hurt or killed people. A masseuse that does not know what they are doing can literally break your back through ignorance. An unlicensed electrician can rig the bathroom wiring in a way that could electrocute you. A restaurant could be supplied with contaminated meat and make you sick.

All these regulations are in place to prevent the consumer from getting hurt by accident or ignorance. If you are so enamored of the freedom to ride an unmaintained bus on "Death's Highway" in Columbia just go and do it. Do not bring the lax road and vehicle standards to this country. We have gotten past that nonsense.

The economic term for all this regulation is called “internalizing costs” and most of the regulated businesses hate it because it means they will have to pay instead of passing on the costs or the risks to their customers. That hurts the profit for a givin amount of work.

 
Old 09-23-2009, 08:44 AM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
13,809 posts, read 26,553,213 times
Reputation: 6790
It is difficult to say as there are different views of what "freest" means and how to tabulate it. That said New Zealand appears to be above the US in every one I found, including indices of economic freedom from conservative groups.

http://a330.g.akamai.net/7/330/25828/20081021185552/graphics.eiu.com/PDF/Democracy%20Index%202008.pdf (broken link)
freedomhouse.org: 2008 Freedom of the Press World Ranking (http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=442&year=2008 - broken link)
http://www.freetheworld.com/2009/rep...W2009_BOOK.pdf
Reporters Sans Frontières
Freedom Index : Find Freedom!
Country rankings for trade, business, fiscal, monetary, financial, labor and investment freedoms

Still I'd be tempted to say that the US is among 20-30 freest nations and attempts to place one of those as "on top" are going to be somewhat subjective. For whatever reason Americans just like to place themselves "on top" and find "we're among the best" less satisfactory than "We're Number 1, We're Number 1!"
 
Old 09-23-2009, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,954,125 times
Reputation: 36644
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
All these regulations are in place to prevent the consumer from getting hurt by accident or ignorance. If you are so enamored of the freedom to ride an unmaintained bus on "Death's Highway" in Columbia just go and do it. Do not bring the lax road and vehicle standards to this country. We have gotten past that nonsense.
But they also have the effect of denying the passengers the right to choose and make their own cost/risk judgment. And it is that freedom that this topic is about. First-class transportation and five-star dining along the road exist for those who wish to pay for it. As does an alternative for those who can't, in countries that are relatively free.
 
Old 09-23-2009, 10:31 AM
 
28,895 posts, read 54,147,443 times
Reputation: 46680
I would say no, chiefly because of the prevailing trends over the past half century. First, of course, we have the erosion of economic liberty, defined by higher taxation and more pervasive regulations in every sector of American life. Obviously, some are unqualified goods, such as protecting the environment and the health of the American consumer. Yet the larger government gets, the more individual Americans serve it, rather than vice versa.

Just one year ago, for example, we had the Federal Reserve (Which is a cartel of banks that operates completely without any oversight from the actual Federal government), hand over literally hundred of billions to its member banks with out accounting for a single dime. And, today, they're fighting an effort by Congress to audit the books tooth and nail. It has to be the most corrupt institution in American life today.

Second, I would offer that government has gotten more and more into the business of regulating individual behavior, and making lifestyle decisions on behalf of the individual. For example, the current drug laws in this country have pretty much trampled individual rights against unreasonable search and seizure, not to mention due process. Just the other day, my child's school sent home a form asking me, the parent, to allow them to subject my child to a drug test at will. I sent this back with a terse note to the school board to put the permission slip someplace unmentionable. We are a law-abiding family that doesn't have any drugs in the house stronger than Motrin. But I'll be damned if I'm going to sign my child's civil liberties away.

The same thing goes for the wholesale erosion of civil rights implemented under the ironically-named Freedom Act. And, of course, you have the charade that takes place after every airport when you want to fly somewhere--as if a terrorist wouldn't have figured out a way to get around the feeble security measures forced upon air travelers. The Federal government can now tap your phone lines, keep you from traveling, and hold you for years without evidence, without so much as a warrant from a judge. Whatever happened to habeas corpus in this country?

So if you think we're living in a free country, I would gently suggest that you're smoking crack. Both the left and the right have done their level best to strip us of our freedoms, and we have relinquished them like so many sheep.
 
Old 09-23-2009, 12:56 PM
 
Location: United States
2,497 posts, read 7,476,584 times
Reputation: 2270
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I just saw a TV commercial in which the CEO of Sprint said this is the freest couintry in the world. Most Americans probably believe that. But, is it really?
The endless debate.
My take is that while we do have alot of freedom we are still not totally free. Taxation is our biggest holdback for ever considering ourselves free. The Government steals from us daily. We are constantly fed BS by our politicians and our young people over seas are coming "home" in pieces all in the name of freedom. I don't buy it. American is greed, period. Driven by money. Who ever has the bigger car wins. Bigger house wins. Bigger bank account wins. Bigger degree in education wins.
But yes we are free in the sense to come and go as we please, but as far as being truly free, never have been. It's a curtain that most proud American keep closed, and will always be this way.
 
Old 02-20-2010, 08:32 PM
 
1 posts, read 1,855 times
Reputation: 10
When 1/4 of all the world's prisoners are in America (Communist China has fewer), and drug laws, including allowing confiscation of any and all goods even those of innocent people who perhaps loaned a car to a friend who was caught with a little pot, are horribly harsh, no, we are not the freest.
 
Old 02-20-2010, 08:49 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
8,182 posts, read 9,211,043 times
Reputation: 3632
We are the freest, as long as you abide by all the laws and regulations. :-)
 
Old 02-20-2010, 10:30 PM
 
Location: Tricity, PL
61,685 posts, read 87,077,794 times
Reputation: 131643
Not, we are not! We are pretty much all brainwashed and gullible here.
 
Old 02-21-2010, 07:12 AM
 
2,994 posts, read 5,771,305 times
Reputation: 1822
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I just saw a TV commercial in which the CEO of Sprint said this is the freest couintry in the world. Most Americans probably believe that. But, is it really?
It all depends on how youre defining free ; yes, Americans enjoy the freedom to do/act/talk/live anyway they feel like including immorality of many kinds...but is that really freedom or is it really bondage in disguise ? Is having this massive expectation of entitlement something that is liberating ....or, is it detrimental ? (If the 4,000 developing Americans per day who are brutally killed in the womb due to sexual hedonism gone further wrong could talk...I wonder how they would view the freedom and entitle-itis afforded America ?)

Last edited by 007.5; 02-21-2010 at 07:15 AM.. Reason: add
 
Old 02-21-2010, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,954,125 times
Reputation: 36644
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
We are the freest, as long as you abide by all the laws and regulations. :-)
North Koreans are perfectly free, too, as long as they abide by all the regulations. Next time you visit a state park (where you aren't even free to enter your publicly owned land until you pay the day-use fee just to get in), go to the bulletin board and look at the regulations. Take along your magnifying glass. (There are still four states in which you are free to wander in and out of the state parks that you own: IL MO NC PA.
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