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Old 09-28-2009, 09:36 AM
 
1,310 posts, read 2,641,567 times
Reputation: 581

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
OP ... sounds like a false premise to me.

A "marriage" is more than just a provider and a sperm donor living with a female from time to time.

Of the good marriages I know, all have a loving couple that are also best friends, confidents, and supportive of each other. There's a lot more to being a committed spouse there than the superficial requirements of a relationship ....

Of course, if all you see of value in a marriage is the superficialities, then you've got a paradigm of failure in the making. And it's always just the man's fault, isn't it, when it isn't worth the effort to continue the marriage after 5-6 years ... or however long it takes for the bloom to come off the rose?
I have to agree with your insight ; WHile im totally for the Institution of Marriage....I do see marriage being a very potentially difficult venue/commitment with all sorts of things tugging at it including destructive culture philosophies. For that reason , I believe today more than ever, people REALLY need to be extremely cautious when choosing their marriage mate, hold out for a long courtship by getting beyond the infactuation stage so you know each other extremely well, undergo objective pre-marital counselling and have that professional counsellor predict the success rate of the marriage based on the couple, etc... Marriage today has become a very difficult task and is certainly NOT for everyone ; Im a firm Believer that Singleness is a virtue, a high calling, in which much purpose and fulfillment can be found within it --- Marriage is not for the timid , the uninformed , and the romantizier thats for sure.
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,440 posts, read 30,631,199 times
Reputation: 15560
Quote:
Originally Posted by RVlover View Post
You are free to choose whatever you want, but, Cohabitating doesnt offer you any protection especially if youre a female . Theres a long list of reasons why Cohabitating is not a good idea....just so long as you have really deeply considered them.
Protection against what? This isnt Victorian England, thank goodness!
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:29 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,437,255 times
Reputation: 47456
whenever i see marriage threads i see tons of ingratitude. its numbing.
lots of hurt lots of anger.
the ideals of marriage were good but we did not live up to them.
i for all my protests of innocence, came short, way short.
its amazing when i hear the ex spoken of-- that they
would have ever married a demon like that, not one redeeming quality
not a single one.
here is what i think, it was the one time we got a good look in the mirror
and it made us very very angry.
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 20,317,258 times
Reputation: 8606
First things first,

I am a man, so those who claim I'm man bashing, I guess I'm bashing myself.

Secondly, I have a son. We have a very good relationship, and I am always there for him.

Now, I'm a lucky guy. I have a job that gets me out of the house. I'm a mobile individual, I'm on the road all the time, but I am usually home by the end of the day.

So, thats a little about me, so everyone can quit speculating that I'm a man hater.

This is just a question. Why should we get married? It makes no sense, to raise the child? I'm not with my sons mother anymore, yet we have a good relationship because we ended it before things got bad. We both take care of our son, but thats a choice I made.

Now, we don't live together. I can't have my son during the week because of my job, and being oncall all the time. So she watches him all week long. I spend time with him on Saturday and Sunday, but the rest of the time, I'm out of the house.

I'm not out womanizing, I'm working. I'm providing for my son, and his mother supplies the emotional needs he has. I think its a good partnership, and its more in line with what humans were designed for. His mom works, I don't take care of her needs, but I supplement what she needs if she can't make enough. I see no reason why we should be married, we never were. We tried living together, but I was never home, so it just didn't work out.

More and more people are living the way that we are. Some folks look down on this from a religious perspective, but I see nothing wrong with it. If you want to apply a biblical standard, I would have married her, and when I tired of her I guess I could have just married someone else.

Monogamy is a relatively new concept in our society.

Oh, and please leave the "God says" and "The creator tells you" argument out of it.
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:37 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,470,255 times
Reputation: 3869
Quote:
Originally Posted by subsound View Post
I love how it's okay to be sexist against males, double standards FTW.
You're surprised by this thread, and the person who started it?
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Norwood, MN
1,828 posts, read 3,280,981 times
Reputation: 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
Okay tell me then, what the hell good are men? Sperm donors? Modern technology has overcome that need. So I guess that leaves them about as useful as t**s on a boar.

Should we just go ahead and terminate all males at birth? After all, they are only meant to wander the earth aimlessly and hop from bed to bed without any sort of responsibility. And is there any real need for that?

Now, don't get me wrong, if all you want to be is a stud, that's fine. But not all of us want that role.
Men still have an important role as breadwinners.It is still very, very hard for a woman alone (or a man alone for that matter) to raise children well in a material sense unless they have a really good job.
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Norwood, MN
1,828 posts, read 3,280,981 times
Reputation: 871
Single parents can raise children well (my wife did a superb job) it is still much, much easier in every way with two parents.
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 20,317,258 times
Reputation: 8606
Marriage, A History: From Obedience to Intimacy, or How Love Conquered Marriage | California Literary Review

I suggest y'all read this.

Its very well written, and shows that since the womens liberation movement after WWII, when women realized they didn't need men to provide, that divorce rates have increased.

Now, this is probably due to the fact that before that, Women thought it was their duty to stay at home, in a bad marriage. Women have grown out of that.

"
According to the arc of her new book, the primary bases for marriage until only a few centuries ago were property and politics (specifically, that a promising workmate and good in-laws were what one hoped to find in a spouse, more than someone who rang one’s chimes personally); that love and personal satisfaction only began to be a central factor in choosing one’s partner in the 18th century; and that the “perfect” 1950s nuclear family was little more than the last gasp of an ideal right at the moment it began to be fully realized and just before it collapsed, rather than the longtime model for traditional marriage and family patterns in reality."
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:46 AM
 
9,856 posts, read 13,019,586 times
Reputation: 5443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
First things first,

I am a man, so those who claim I'm man bashing, I guess I'm bashing myself.

Secondly, I have a son. We have a very good relationship, and I am always there for him.

Now, I'm a lucky guy. I have a job that gets me out of the house. I'm a mobile individual, I'm on the road all the time, but I am usually home by the end of the day.

So, thats a little about me, so everyone can quit speculating that I'm a man hater.

This is just a question. Why should we get married? It makes no sense, to raise the child? I'm not with my sons mother anymore, yet we have a good relationship because we ended it before things got bad. We both take care of our son, but thats a choice I made.

Now, we don't live together. I can't have my son during the week because of my job, and being oncall all the time. So she watches him all week long. I spend time with him on Saturday and Sunday, but the rest of the time, I'm out of the house.

I'm not out womanizing, I'm working. I'm providing for my son, and his mother supplies the emotional needs he has. I think its a good partnership, and its more in line with what humans were designed for. His mom works, I don't take care of her needs, but I supplement what she needs if she can't make enough. I see no reason why we should be married, we never were. We tried living together, but I was never home, so it just didn't work out.

More and more people are living the way that we are. Some folks look down on this from a religious perspective, but I see nothing wrong with it. If you want to apply a biblical standard, I would have married her, and when I tired of her I guess I could have just married someone else.

Monogamy is a relatively new concept in our society.

Oh, and please leave the "God says" and "The creator tells you" argument out of it.

Here is an article explaining the positive relationship between marriage and good health.

Health, Marriage, and Longer Life for Men

and here is an article about the overall benefits of marriage:
Studies Find Big Benefits in Marriage - The New York Times

and finally a study that shows how marriage benefits everything from lowering reliance on welfare to keeping children out of jail.

The Positive Benefits of Marriage: A Book of Charts

Please read through this stuff. You would be intested to know some actual facts (married mothers are half as likely to be victims of domestic violence, or a child living alone with a single mother is 14 times as likely to be a victim of serious physical abuse than a child living with married cohabiting parents)


It sounds like you don't like marriage...but that doesn't mean there isn't a point.
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Old 09-28-2009, 03:14 PM
 
1,310 posts, read 2,641,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
Protection against what? This isnt Victorian England, thank goodness!
Protection against YOU getting (at least) emotionally harmed . Here is a treatise I did on the subject recently ; you may disagree and thats okay. But i think its worth serious 'objective' consideration before One blindly leaps into Cohabitating because it sounds like fun and its a convenient way to skirt around marriage which in itself has some distinct benefits :

1. In a Shackup situation, its the man who clearly has most of the
benefits. (sex anytime, cooked meals, home cleaned, clothes washed, ironing, et al)
2. If the man leaves, the woman has a harder time supporting herself on
her own due to nearly always making less of an income. Her life is
usually sent into upheavel. At least for a time. Its not the same for
the man.
3. If the man leaves, its almost always the woman who feels deserted,
betrayed, used for sex, etc...and due to her emotional makeup as a
woman, she is devastated for a long time to come. Sometimes irrepairably
so.
4. If there are children involved , the Man can easily abandon the
family usually without any legal ramifications whatsoever ; because
marriage never occured , he is not placed in the same class as if he
were married and abandoned his family. He gets off without having to pay
child support leaving the woman in a real financial/emotional bind. Many
times, the Grandparents are imposed upon for support of many types.
5. It whittles away at the sancitity of Marriage which is always best
for a civilized nation. God ordained marriage and is a sacred covenant
; shacking up is not. In a court of law, Shackin up isnt seen in the same light Marriage is (Watch Judge Judy on TV !)
6. It adds to societal degradation thru promoting the philosophy of
using others for selfish reasons .
7. It doesnt develop integrity on behalf of the participants because
usually when things get too difficult and repeated...instead of being
committed to working it out, the door being left ajar is a greater
enticement . Its far easier to do than in a marriage.
8. Fornication is a violation of an absolute moral law and with it comes
plenty of ramifications ; some of which i list herewith. Others which i
have not.
9. Often, a subconscious or overt disrespect toward the woman occurs
in the man because she is often seen as someone not having the required
respect for herself ,which the man appreciates.
10. The participants know, inherently, that its wrong to do but still
choose to suppress their moral consciences to accomodate the fun and
intrique that playing house affords . (at least it does initially).
11. In the event the two get married down the road, the statistics show a greater chance for divorce if they lived together beforehand. Do a google for this info.
12. It sometimes leads to physical abuse because ,inwardly, the man doesnt have the same level of respect as he does for a wife -- a lifelong marriage partner .

Last edited by RVlover; 09-28-2009 at 03:18 PM.. Reason: add
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