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Old 10-02-2009, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
38,728 posts, read 34,540,251 times
Reputation: 28453
Of course, it's not "crucial". The question is, does society benefit more if it is populated by people who have had a father present in their household.

Children, really, are space fillers. As older people die off, the function of children lies in their replacement value. This may sound heartless and inconsiderate of the children, but really, the number of children who will grown up to be infuential in any way is extremely tiny. Most will simply learn the prevailing value system of the culture, conform pretty well with everybody else, commit some productive work to the expanding economy, and then will need to be replaced by another birth.

So the aim is not to raise people who will make our society great, but people who will make out society continue functionally, and foster some qualities that will be at least harmless in the unlikely event that the child does grow to be influential.

So, really, the parenting and rearing of a child is to grow a generation of round pegs to fit into the round holes that are becoming vacated.

On the other hand, assuming that 2% of our population turns out to be criminals, those have a great deal more influence on the rest of us than the other 98% put together. So the child-rearing target will be most successful if it minimizes the risk that a child will become a criminal. In fact, assuming that the child is of normal intelligence and curiosity and industry, our society will pretty well take care of itself, except to the degree that it is disrupted by malefactors.

Then, the over-riding goal of child rearing ought to lie in a diligence to dissuade the child from a criminal or otherwise anti-social mindset. I think (but canot quote it---I leave that to others) that children from "broken homes" are disproportionately represented in the criminal element. Leading one to the inescapable conclusion that if a nuclear family environment pervades our society, a smaller number of criminals can be expected, and therefore a society that is more in keeping with what our society has been designed to become.
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Old 10-02-2009, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
9,000 posts, read 8,353,134 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeraKera View Post
I was raised by a single mother and she did a great job raising me. I have turned out to be a respectable, professional person; however, as I got older, I began missing my father. There was a void there no one fill but him. He was 'around' but not in the household. We have a great relationship now and I remember him telling me something that struck me. One day I fessed up to him some very painful and embarrassing segments of my life when I was very young and even up to college. He said with a sigh, 'I am so sorry I wasn't around more. If I were, I really believe the things you've been through could've been avoided if I were there to guide you.'

I strongly believe that it is crucial and critical to have the patriarch in the home. Whenever I discuss this with some women, they totally dismiss the father's importance in the home. It's almost like you have to prove why they are necessary. I've never had anyone downplay the importance of a mother in the home, so why fathers?
I don't think it's crucial.
What matters most is having a parent or parents you feel comfortable talking with.

My parents divorced when I was around 3 or 4. I don't have a lot of memories of living with my biological mom and dad in one house.
Sure my mom badmouthed my dad sometimes when I was growing up but she never used me as a pawn to get back at my dad or any of that stuff.

There are plenty of kids who grew up without fathers that do well, there are some that don't do well. I don't think we can say,"Yes, it was because they didn't have a father in the home." There are lots of other unaccounted for variables.

In my Sociology class today we talked about there being a link between the amount of unsupervised time kids spent with friends and drug use, suicide attempts, etc. Now if you have a single mom working 2 jobs to support herself and she doesn't have time to watch her kid, I think it's more an economic issue than there not being a male role model.

Not everyone is fit to be a parent and I think it has less to do with someone's marital status, sexual orientation, etc.
You can meet some fabulous low income single mothers and some crappy middle class heterosexual couples raising kids.

We can go on and on and on about this subject and what environment kids do well in.
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Old 10-02-2009, 12:53 PM
Status: "Rachel Ray make me a baloney sandwich please" (set 10 days ago)
 
Location: The Plains
5,829 posts, read 4,663,144 times
Reputation: 4015
Hmmm... I'm wondering is a man still a "Father" even if he is not raising his kids?
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Old 10-02-2009, 01:09 PM
 
1,340 posts, read 1,619,447 times
Reputation: 715
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeraKera View Post
I was raised by a single mother and she did a great job raising me. I have turned out to be a respectable, professional person; however, as I got older, I began missing my father. There was a void there no one fill but him. He was 'around' but not in the household. We have a great relationship now and I remember him telling me something that struck me. One day I fessed up to him some very painful and embarrassing segments of my life when I was very young and even up to college. He said with a sigh, 'I am so sorry I wasn't around more. If I were, I really believe the things you've been through could've been avoided if I were there to guide you.'

I strongly believe that it is crucial and critical to have the patriarch in the home. Whenever I discuss this with some women, they totally dismiss the father's importance in the home. It's almost like you have to prove why they are necessary. I've never had anyone downplay the importance of a mother in the home, so why fathers?
Studies done in a society messed up as the US are worthless .

Humans have always known both sexes are necessary to raise children.
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Old 10-02-2009, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,238 posts, read 25,138,669 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thriftylefty View Post
Hmmm... I'm wondering is a man still a "Father" even if he is not raising his kids?
A "father" but not a "dad"...in some circumstances. If my earlier post wasn't clear, I didn't mean that he shouldn't be in the home, just that his "job" is to be the breadwinner, not the caretaker.
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Old 10-02-2009, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
23,424 posts, read 18,580,994 times
Reputation: 10977
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeraKera View Post
I was raised by a single mother and she did a great job raising me. I have turned out to be a respectable, professional person; however, as I got older, I began missing my father. There was a void there no one fill but him. He was 'around' but not in the household. We have a great relationship now and I remember him telling me something that struck me. One day I fessed up to him some very painful and embarrassing segments of my life when I was very young and even up to college. He said with a sigh, 'I am so sorry I wasn't around more. If I were, I really believe the things you've been through could've been avoided if I were there to guide you.'

I strongly believe that it is crucial and critical to have the patriarch in the home. Whenever I discuss this with some women, they totally dismiss the father's importance in the home. It's almost like you have to prove why they are necessary. I've never had anyone downplay the importance of a mother in the home, so why fathers?

I grew up without a father, and the void is real. I had a wonderful mother, who raised me right, and I think I turned out very well.......but my life would have been immeasurably better had I had a father. I think I might "overfather" my sons as compensation.

I do not know why the father's role is always diminished (especially by feminists and the divorce industry), but it's insane to even think that way. Fathers are as necessary as mothers - period.

To me I don't even see a reason to debate this point.
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Old 10-02-2009, 01:39 PM
 
Location: 95468
1,344 posts, read 1,356,683 times
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Premeditated fatherlessness is child abuse.
These people should not have children.
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Old 10-02-2009, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,238 posts, read 25,138,669 times
Reputation: 10544
I think I would have been better off, honestly, though I do see the value in having a father in the home, both parents have to actually WANT their kids for it to work out.
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Old 10-02-2009, 02:09 PM
 
Location: 95468
1,344 posts, read 1,356,683 times
Reputation: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunil's Dad View Post
I grew up without a father, and the void is real. I had a wonderful mother, who raised me right, and I think I turned out very well.......but my life would have been immeasurably better had I had a father. I think I might "overfather" my sons as compensation.

I do not know why the father's role is always diminished (especially by feminists and the divorce industry), but it's insane to even think that way. Fathers are as necessary as mothers - period.

To me I don't even see a reason to debate this point.
The reason they slam dads is because dads are men. Hate is the engine that drives feminism.
Their motto; "We don't need no stinkin' man". To be said with bitterness and done with a sneer.
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Old 10-02-2009, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
38,728 posts, read 34,540,251 times
Reputation: 28453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingfoot View Post

Humans have always known both sexes are necessary to raise children.
Not true at all. In most societies prior to settled agriculture, the father was absent much of the time, and the children were cared for and raised by the women of the extended family. That remains true to this day in non-industrialized couinries. Many fathers in Africa who have "jobs" see their children only a few weeks a year. Before the industrial revolution, in most parts of the world, the life expectancy of the men seldom reached the adulthood of their children.

Throughout early history, it is likely that a mojority of all children grew up with absent fathers, engaged in a distant livelihood, or had abandoned their families, or died before the children grew up.

In fact, according to Wikipedia, "Historical records indicate that the prevalence of a nuclear family arrangement is a relatively recent phenomenon."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_family
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