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Old 10-13-2009, 05:49 PM
 
25,170 posts, read 32,288,682 times
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He had heads and partially disintegrated corpses in his house when they arrested him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Say what? You mean like when they arrested Dahmer in Milwaukee?
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Old 10-13-2009, 05:54 PM
 
25,170 posts, read 32,288,682 times
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Sorry but you are wrong. Everybody retains the majority of their civil rights even if they are convicted. Get over yourself please.

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Originally Posted by donsabi View Post
Until a defendant is proven guilty I agree that they have rights that must be defended. If found guilty that that person has no rights. If a person cannot or will not live by societies rules then they have no right to the benefits of that society.

Our prisons have become the best educational systems in the country. Inmates complete their criminal education and expand their unlawful skills while behind bars. Most come out of prison in better shape than a marine recruit fresh out of basic of which that will use against society. The repeat rate for convicts is somewhere around 80% or higher. How can this be if prisons are so bad? In China the repeat rate is less than 1%. Compared to China America's prisons are like a trip to Disneyworld. I think it would be much cheaper and far more effective to outsource our prison system to China for felons serving five or more years.
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Old 10-13-2009, 06:03 PM
 
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They get food, shelter, and water on your dime. It isn't their fault that the government doesn't want them working for their own stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
If they have them whats your problem?

[url="http://public.findlaw.com/civil-rights/more-civil-rights-topics/institutionalized-persons-discrimination-more/le5_6rights.html"]

So you believe they have a RIGHT to medical treatment on our dime?
Nobody else does but a convicted criminal does?

You believe that a convicted criminal has rights & privilages far and above a law abiding tax payer?


Are you trying to say that this is a regular thing? from your links it seems that he was mistreated, if its true then people will be held accountable.
But the fact remains that tens of thousands of criminals serve out their time without anything resembling this happening. Its like crying wolf because a poodle bit your ankle.

The biggest flaw with our prison system is we put too many minor harmless offenders into it & need to release real criminals to make room.

.................................................. ................................................

Its not a question of what either of you "believes". The question has been settled. The Eighth Amendment to the US Constitution prevents the state from subjecting inmates to cruel and unusual punishments. Courts interpret the Constitution and courts have held that not providing medical treatment, not providing an adequate diet, providing dangerous conditions of confinement, and labor which is dangerous are all violations of the Constitution.

Sheriff Joe and a thousand other county officials have been hit with civil rights lawsuits and verdicts rendered by juries in their own communities for millions of dollars for violating this provision of the Constitution. Alot of screwballs down in Phoenix "love" Arpajo for being such a tough guy. I wonder if they have any clue how much this clown is costing Maricopa County?

Seriously, Tin, one of my main objections to your point of view is that you folks seldom take the trouble to educate yourself what the law currently is. If you don't like it, get a movement started and either get the Supreme Court to reverse these decisions or get the US Constitution amended. The opinions that count in these matters are not yours or mine. They are the opinions of John Roberts, Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas, Steven Breyer, etc. Right now, though, the law is the law and like it or not we are all stuck with it.
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Old 10-13-2009, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
38,728 posts, read 34,444,983 times
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For cases like Dahmer, there could be a panel of jurors who can be called at any time of day or night, for form a Grand Jury. In an unusual case where a suspect is perceived as a clear and present danger to the public, this panel could make an emergency finding that he be held in a facility which would be the equivalent of a hotel, where his dignity is protected and his ordinary comforts are not withdrawn until there is a final guilty verdict.

When a call is made to provide for the dignity and comfort of millions of people, it is unfair for you to say all of them deserve to be treated like Dahmer.
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Old 10-19-2009, 07:38 AM
 
28,786 posts, read 16,763,405 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artsyguy View Post
He had heads and partially disintegrated corpses in his house when they arrested him.
Yep. Which is why I was disagreeing with Greg W's whole "no jail without a trial. ever." comment. There are some people that well, need to stay in jail while awaiting trial for the public good.
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Old 10-19-2009, 07:42 AM
 
28,786 posts, read 16,763,405 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
For cases like Dahmer, there could be a panel of jurors who can be called at any time of day or night, for form a Grand Jury. In an unusual case where a suspect is perceived as a clear and present danger to the public, this panel could make an emergency finding that he be held in a facility which would be the equivalent of a hotel, where his dignity is protected and his ordinary comforts are not withdrawn until there is a final guilty verdict.

When a call is made to provide for the dignity and comfort of millions of people, it is unfair for you to say all of them deserve to be treated like Dahmer.
Isn't this the purpose of bail? Most people are released until their trial date unless it's a fairly serious crime.
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Old 10-19-2009, 07:47 AM
 
28,786 posts, read 16,763,405 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Except the person who spent nine days in jail had no way of knowing or believing that the payments were not being made, and there is no reasonable expectation in our society that a person is supposed to presume a spouse to be guilty unless proven innocent. If your wife cashed a bad check, would you admit that the nine days you spent in jail are perfectly justified, and would serve you right?
If you buy a car, get a loan and then don't make payments they repossess it etc. In THIS situation the person really never bought the car...they kinda um...."borrowed it"? LMAO.

Why don't you start from the beginning how this car was "bought". Why didn't the husband show up and clear things up?

Your story smells like 9-day old fish and I'm betting someone is spinning a story somewhere in here.
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