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I am not equating illegal aliens to people who have served time. I am contrasting them. I also bring it up because if the rationale for hiring illegals is because they have a right to support their families, shouldn't this also apply to ex-convicts? If you say "yes", you are being consistant and I have no issue with that. If you say that it does not apply, than I'm curious about the inconsistancy and think it merits explanation.
Concerning my statement that a person who has completed his or her sentence has "taken responsibility for his/her actions," I mean this in the widest sense. For the purposes of the example, I include those cases where the person did not plead guilty. by doing their time, willingly or not, the person has fulfilled their debt to society. If you want to argue the point that would perhaps warrant it's own thread.
The phrase "productive members of society" was perhaps poorly chosen. I only meant that they seek legal employment as a means to get money rather than getting money through illegal activities.
If the wording was poor, I don't think it is very important in this case. The question is whether you would support those who have served their time and are eligible for employment as readily as you would support those who are not elligible for employment.
People hire illegal aliens, because they work cheap, off the books, and can be easily extorted. Employers know the alien has no recourse. They can't go to the police, if they are not paid. Which is why things need to be done legally. Not to punish anyone, but to provide the protections under the Law that American citizens enjoy. But when a person is hear illegally, they have no rights or protections.
The question is whether you would support those who have served their time and are eligible for employment as readily as you would support those who are not elligible for employment.
My answer to that is that I would defend the dignity of all human beings, whether they are illegal aliens, ex-convicts, or whatever. It saddens me that our society has taken the rigid view that nobody is entitled to dignity unless they have purchased dignity by engaging in some activity that is economically remunerative.
I don't really care if criminals have served their time or not, as long as they discontinue their criminal activity, and incarceration rarely achieves that objective.
If I had a company, I would never hire illegals. Nor would I knowingly use the services of a company that did. I feel this encourages large numbers of illegals to come here.
But, if I could help out a family by hiring one of them to work around the house from time to time for cash, I would. I guess I can rationalize this by thinking that if someone is here already and has kids to feed, I would want help them.
I absolutely agree with you....and I DON'T think it's the government's business if a homeowner hires someone to do a few odd jobs for them, especially if it means that the person and their family would have to ask for "public assistance" otherwise. How is that not neighbor helping neighbor? ... Communities taking care of themselves and each other?
I know this is going to come off as a rant, but it makes me sick to think that our government complains about people not helping each other and then when a homeowner does hire their neighbor, our government stands there with their frickin hands out, expecting the earner to give them part of their earnings....and IF the homeowner pays them too much money, they're required to fill out statements and pay taxes on them. Are you frickin kidding me? That, my friends is just another one of the reasons there is such a market for illegals! ....combine that with American citizens being terrified of being busted for working under the table, Americans being terrified of hiring someone under the table, Americans having a sense of entitlement and/or being lazy....and you have a lucrative market for illegals. Oh...let's not mention drug testing here..... do you know how many people don't work because they occasionally imbibe in illegal substances...and can't pass a drug test?
illegal immigration is not an act against me its an act against american labor which seems for some reason concerned very little. illegal immigration is government & business sponsored--- it does not just happen.
Yet, those who enter the United States without the required authorization are law breakers. And those law breakers should not be rewarded for their activities.
Many of those law breakers go further and steal someones identity - and now are criminals. Yet some would choose to reward this criminal activity by hiring them.
Many of those law breakers go further and steal someones identity - and now are criminals. Yet some would choose to reward this criminal activity by hiring them.
There is no evidence that an illegal alien is more likely than a legal resident to commit any other type of illegal activity, including identity theft. There may be illegal aliens that, in large numbers, use unauthorized identities for the purpose of finding work, but they do not commit the original identity theft, and they do not use the theft to victimize the person from whom the ID was stolen.
In fact, if an illegal alien uses your ID to get a job, it is to your advantage, because social security deductions from his earnings will be credited to you.
Considering the fact that a large majority of illegal aliens are males 18-35 years old, the crime rate among illegal aliens of that demographic is lower than it is among legal resident males of that age.
Getting away with a crime, is never to anyone's benefit. The act of coming here with out proper authorization is a crime in itself, and needs no other action to make the perpetrator a "Criminal." Which is why I favor doing it by the numbers, and not putting a black mark on a persons record. I hear on the news, that there is in fact a rash of Illegal us of other Peoples ID, to gain services of all kinds.
There is no evidence that an illegal alien is more likely than a legal resident to commit any other type of illegal activity, including identity theft. There may be illegal aliens that, in large numbers, use unauthorized identities for the purpose of finding work, but they do not commit the original identity theft, and they do not use the theft to victimize the person from whom the ID was stolen.
In fact, if an illegal alien uses your ID to get a job, it is to your advantage, because social security deductions from his earnings will be credited to you.
Considering the fact that a large majority of illegal aliens are males 18-35 years old, the crime rate among illegal aliens of that demographic is lower than it is among legal resident males of that age.
They also have been known to get credit in another's name. Ruin their credit record. You should study up on this - the FTC has some information on the issue.
The fact remains - identity theft is big business. And illegal immigrants are a large part of the problem.
It is also a fact that illegal immigrants are "users" of services that are being paid for by those in the country legally. This is an undeniable fact.
Illegals are, as previously noted, being arrested, detained and deported. If they have children, they have to choose to either take their children or, if the children were born in the US, to leave them. Many are taking their kids.
There is no evidence that an illegal alien is more likely than a legal resident to commit any other type of illegal activity, including identity theft. There may be illegal aliens that, in large numbers, use unauthorized identities for the purpose of finding work, but they do not commit the original identity theft, and they do not use the theft to victimize the person from whom the ID was stolen.
In fact, if an illegal alien uses your ID to get a job, it is to your advantage, because social security deductions from his earnings will be credited to you.
Considering the fact that a large majority of illegal aliens are males 18-35 years old, the crime rate among illegal aliens of that demographic is lower than it is among legal resident males of that age.
I have two points to make;
(1) It is ridiculous to say that there is no evidence that an illegal alien is more likely than a legal resident to commit any other type of illegal activity. Clearly you have not done a lot of research on this.
I'm not going to take the time right now listing summaries and highlights of these reports or to research for other stats. My point is it took 20 seconds to find such evidence. You would be better off to say that the evidence does not constitute absolute proof. That said, I'll continue to my second point.
(2) In fairness I'll point out that in the same twenty seconds I found evidence supporting the position that illegal aliens are less likely to commit certain crimes. The legitamacy and weight of this evidence is also debatable but I concede that there is such evidence.
Immigrants, Including “Illegal Aliens†in California, Have Much Lower Crime Rate than the Rest of Us - California Progress Report (http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/2008/02/immigrants_incl.html - broken link)
I have a strong opinion but don't accuse me of being closed-minded.
Last edited by Paradox22; 11-09-2009 at 01:27 PM..
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