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Unread 10-07-2009, 09:21 PM
 
1,067 posts, read 1,077,830 times
Reputation: 451
Default Uber-rich and their money

Definition: Uber-rich are not CEO's pounding down millions, nor sports players or entertainers. Uber-rich are those at the top.

Now the uber-rich have to deal with a middle class problem. Not being able to have A, B and C but deciding A, B or C. Signature loans are no longer available due to the credit retraction.

Signature loans: Definition - Loans made to uber rich based on their name only, no collateral needed. And no risk to core assets.

Uber-rich have not, until recently, had to deal with choosing options. The economy was flush with opportunity. Buy a hotel, office building or manufacturing plant... pay labor and lawsuits... and they finance their lifestyle amongst the family decisions and make money.... core assets grow based soley on their signature loan. Sweat and toil is something that the middle class provides... and at the middle class risk.

Besides the obvious, is anyone seeing the problem?
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Unread 10-07-2009, 11:13 PM
 
Location: Boise
1,889 posts, read 1,817,676 times
Reputation: 641
Quote:
Originally Posted by checking out View Post
Definition: Uber-rich are not CEO's pounding down millions, nor sports players or entertainers. Uber-rich are those at the top.

Now the uber-rich have to deal with a middle class problem. Not being able to have A, B and C but deciding A, B or C. Signature loans are no longer available due to the credit retraction.

Signature loans: Definition - Loans made to uber rich based on their name only, no collateral needed. And no risk to core assets.

Uber-rich have not, until recently, had to deal with choosing options. The economy was flush with opportunity. Buy a hotel, office building or manufacturing plant... pay labor and lawsuits... and they finance their lifestyle amongst the family decisions and make money.... core assets grow based soley on their signature loan. Sweat and toil is something that the middle class provides... and at the middle class risk.

Besides the obvious, is anyone seeing the problem?
Yeah, you posit many problems in this observation, but where are you going with all this?

Are you saying something along the lines of Henry Ford when he said that the people building his cars need to make enough wage to buy them?
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Unread 10-07-2009, 11:40 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
37,354 posts, read 31,682,725 times
Reputation: 26741
The entire purpose of developing a free-market capitalist economy is to enable the uber-rich to capture all the wealth for themselves. Why else would anybody want a free market? Why would I want a free market? How does it benefit me? It trickles down? Don't be silly.

Trickle down, as a physical phenomenon, only works when gravity is the only force applied to the fluid. But it takes a very tiny amount of force to overcome gravity and suck the entire contents of the vessel up the straw and into the maw of the person who possesses a monopoly on all economic power. Nothing trickles down, unless the sucking force at the top releases a smidgen to keep the peasants from revolt.
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Unread 10-08-2009, 06:16 AM
 
Location: New Kensington (Parnassus) ,Pa
2,424 posts, read 738,558 times
Reputation: 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
The entire purpose of developing a free-market capitalist economy is to enable the uber-rich to capture all the wealth for themselves. Why else would anybody want a free market? Why would I want a free market? How does it benefit me? It trickles down? Don't be silly.

Trickle down, as a physical phenomenon, only works when gravity is the only force applied to the fluid. But it takes a very tiny amount of force to overcome gravity and suck the entire contents of the vessel up the straw and into the maw of the person who possesses a monopoly on all economic power. Nothing trickles down, unless the sucking force at the top releases a smidgen to keep the peasants from revolt.
Obviously, it does trickle down or you would not have a job.
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Unread 10-08-2009, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,310 posts, read 18,841,833 times
Reputation: 6564
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
The entire purpose of developing a free-market capitalist economy is to enable the uber-rich to capture all the wealth for themselves. Why else would anybody want a free market? Why would I want a free market? How does it benefit me? It trickles down? Don't be silly.

Trickle down, as a physical phenomenon, only works when gravity is the only force applied to the fluid. But it takes a very tiny amount of force to overcome gravity and suck the entire contents of the vessel up the straw and into the maw of the person who possesses a monopoly on all economic power. Nothing trickles down, unless the sucking force at the top releases a smidgen to keep the peasants from revolt.
Actually, I think the whole problem is that we don't have a free market. If we had a free market GM would have failed in the 90's. A very large percentage of "creative" insurers, investment banks, crappy hedge funds, crappy companies that exist only by virtue of "funny money" and the widespread ability to over-leverage everything over the last two decades would have failed this year. By virtue of socializing the failure of these entities, we have obliterated the constructiveness of the market correction and destroyed any chance of people who earn their keep via sweat, toil and good-faith to grow into something of value.

Everyone should want to exist in a free market. These socialist united states just spent billions of our tax dollars floating the uber-rich. The government shouldn't be around to rescuscitate dinosaurs or to take care of the plebs. It should be there to ensure fair play during the fight to fill the void when the fat dinosaurs fail.
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Unread 10-08-2009, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
32,160 posts, read 24,905,946 times
Reputation: 14305
What you are proposing is blasphemy to the owners. Do you really mean to have them put their fortunes at risk? We have to maintain our system of socialism for the owners, pittance for the poor and a cutthroat market for the rest of us. That is the way it is supposed to be. Just ask them.

IMHO a proper very progressive income tax would prevent an Uber rich class from forming as well as whittling it down every year. This would create an economy where the middle class retained enough money to reinvest in their own businesses as well a create enough wealth to take care of the poor by providing jobs as well as welfare for the helpless.

I believe regulated capitalism really works but what we are currently enduring is a very perverted form of capitalism that is working only for the very few.

Before the true believers get on my back about class warfare I would like to say the upper classes have been making war on the middle class and the poor since somebody invented money. Money changers in the Temple, Emperors in Rome, Barons and princes everywhere, central bankers, crooked politicians and businesses too big to fail have been looting us forever.
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Unread 10-08-2009, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
37,354 posts, read 31,682,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aveojohn View Post
Obviously, it does trickle down or you would not have a job.
But the wealth does not trickle down, because most workers have negative net worth, since they borrow and spend more than they earn. And what they spend gets sucked right back up to the uber-rich. If trickle-down was actually a characteristic of wealth distribution, the workers would have positive net worth. But they don't.

The upward flow of wealth from the workers to the uber-rich is advancing at a faster pace than the trickle down. When that upward pace is brisk (like when the Dow goes up), the happy-faced news anchors say there is good economic news today.
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Unread 10-08-2009, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
7,092 posts, read 6,437,707 times
Reputation: 4003
People spending more then they earn has nothing to do with wealth, it has everything to do with consumption. The wealthy generate businesses with loans and retained earnings, which generate jobs, velocity of money (like the money multiplier), and businesses that supply them down the line (mining to supply manufacturers to supply retailers). People who spend more then they earn aren't just "making the rich richer", they are mismanaging their own money and mortgaging their future. They would have a positive net worth if they just didn't waste money and kept it instead. If people invested it they could look just as happy when the market goes up instead of sad when they realized the object they spent money on is depreciating instead.
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Unread 10-08-2009, 02:57 PM
 
Location: New Kensington (Parnassus) ,Pa
2,424 posts, read 738,558 times
Reputation: 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
But the wealth does not trickle down, because most workers have negative net worth, since they borrow and spend more than they earn. And what they spend gets sucked right back up to the uber-rich. If trickle-down was actually a characteristic of wealth distribution, the workers would have positive net worth. But they don't.

The upward flow of wealth from the workers to the uber-rich is advancing at a faster pace than the trickle down. When that upward pace is brisk (like when the Dow goes up), the happy-faced news anchors say there is good economic news today.
What makes you think the rich owe you anything other than a pay check if you work for them. If somebody invests his savings and time into some sort of business and becomes wealthy, that's a good thing, it creates jobs.That's what trickle down is. To many people think they are entitled to a piece of the pie, when they haven't done anything to deserve it.
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Unread 10-08-2009, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
37,354 posts, read 31,682,725 times
Reputation: 26741
Quote:
Originally Posted by aveojohn View Post
What makes you think the rich owe you anything other than a pay check if you work for them. If somebody invests his savings and time into some sort of business and becomes wealthy, that's a good thing, it creates jobs.That's what trickle down is. To many people think they are entitled to a piece of the pie, when they haven't done anything to deserve it.
Except work. They were told in school that they will get ahead if they work. They were lied to. They will just load 16 tons of number nine coal, and owe their souls to the company store.
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