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Old 10-13-2009, 03:35 PM
 
3,283 posts, read 4,567,202 times
Reputation: 748

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I respond to posts one at a time. You post, I post. Until the novelty wears off, or I get an inexplicable urge to go and get a cookie.

that's is why i asked you if you read the entire opening post! it is obvious that the answer to that question is no! perhaps going forward you should read the entire post before you draw conclusions!
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Old 10-13-2009, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, NY
136 posts, read 202,373 times
Reputation: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by 58robbo View Post
i never said that i believed evolution to be false, i just said that i don't necessarily believe it to be true because i haven't sat down with the origin of species and looked into the evidence presented. i can guarantee you though that sandycat 'the all knowing' has never read darwin, been to the galapagos or the cradle of mankind etc. i can guarantee you that it bases its opinions solely on its 5th grade textbook and regurgitated 2nd hand wisdom like almost everyone else
I am reposting this, so you can respond. Care to explain this hypocrisy?

One one hand, you say you won't believe in something you haven't researched.

On the other hand, you say you can guarantee that a certain City-Data user has never read certain books, traveled to certain places. You then guarantee that this user is basing its opinions on a 5th grade textbook?

HOW CAN YOU GUARANTEE SUCH THINGS? The only way you could guarantee such things is if you WERE sandycat. You have not researched sandycat's WHOLE life to be able to guarantee such things.
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Old 10-13-2009, 03:47 PM
 
3,283 posts, read 4,567,202 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyBurgBK View Post
I am reposting this, so you can respond. Care to explain this hypocrisy?

One one hand, you say you won't believe in something you haven't researched.

On the other hand, you say you can guarantee that a certain City-Data user has never read certain books, traveled to certain places. You then guarantee that this user is basing its opinions on a 5th grade textbook?

HOW CAN YOU GUARANTEE SUCH THINGS? The only way you could guarantee such things is if you WERE sandycat. You have not researched sandycat's WHOLE life to be able to guarantee such things.

poetic license!
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Old 10-13-2009, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, NY
136 posts, read 202,373 times
Reputation: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by 58robbo View Post
poetic license!
So your argument that people should be skeptical of things they have not researched is completely a ruse for you wanting to complain about "left" people. Please, take your partisan complaints to the Politics forum. I do not even understand how political leanings have anything to do with the validity of evolution.

You have completely undermined your whole argument with your hypocrisy.
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Old 10-13-2009, 04:02 PM
 
3,283 posts, read 4,567,202 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyBurgBK View Post
I am reposting this, so you can respond. Care to explain this hypocrisy?

One one hand, you say you won't believe in something you haven't researched.

On the other hand, you say you can guarantee that a certain City-Data user has never read certain books, traveled to certain places. You then guarantee that this user is basing its opinions on a 5th grade textbook?

HOW CAN YOU GUARANTEE SUCH THINGS? The only way you could guarantee such things is if you WERE sandycat. You have not researched sandycat's WHOLE life to be able to guarantee such things.

did you read sandycat's response to my op? if you did, perhaps you'll see why i responded in the way i did. it is precisely that arrogant closed mindedness which i'd like to address. the idea that this is the theory, case closed. any dissent from this view represents ingnorant stupidity
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Old 10-13-2009, 04:03 PM
 
29,975 posts, read 15,277,538 times
Reputation: 15688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
I meant "Gotcha" to mean "I understand."
Ah, OK. Consider my snark retracted.


Quote:
Now... Does the theory of evolution not, by definition, believe that life forms slowly and microscopically transformed and adapted over billions of years?
Sure does.

Quote:
That means tiny little progressions, not big ones.
I'd not use the word "progression" - it seems to imply some sort of improvement. But yes, small changes.

Quote:
And that means that there have to be hundreds upon hundreds of billions of transitional life forms.
All life forms are transitional or dead-ends slotted for extinction. Some are under less evolutionary pressure than others and accordingly, evolve slowly. But when conditions change, it's simple: Evolve or perish. Most perish.

Quote:
And that means there have to be fossils of at least some of them, doesn't it?
What makes you think there isn't? Do you think every single fossil represents an archetype, created just so and since gone extinct?

Quote:
We're not talking about 15-20.
Ehm - for a lot of fauna, we are. Do you know how many T. Rex fossils there are? Less than 30, none of them complete. Fossilization is a rare event. For macroscopic land-dwelling life, very rare indeed.

Ironically, Campbell34 recommended a great book on this subject, "In search of deep time" by Henry Gee. It's been quote-mined to death by the intellectually dishonest, but it describes the challenges in interpreting the fossil record very well. It also describes how the fossil record perfectly supports evolution and how people (on either side of the debate) who expect some sort of genealogical sequence from fossils are being naive.

Quote:
We're talking about hundreds of millions in order to make the theory even remotely plausible.
The entire fossil record could disappear tomorrow. Poof, gone.

ToE would still be the best theory to describe speciation. Your gene for creating Vitamin C would stilll be present, broken, and broken in the exact same way a chimpanzee's gene is. The endogenous retroviruses in your DNA would still act as markers that show when and where we branched off from fellow ancestors.

As it happens, the fossil record is perfectly consistent with the modern version of the ToE. It does not provide the bulletproof evidence that some may have thought it would, but it absolutely supports the theory.
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Old 10-13-2009, 04:13 PM
 
3,713 posts, read 3,038,648 times
Reputation: 10073
Whether we believe in the evolutionary theory or not, it is something that needs to be considered, if for no other reason than the sheer amount of work that went into it. I remember my early Christian upbringing well enough to remember the fanciful notions that seemed to be inate in those descriptions of Heaven, and Hell, and the creation of man. Both positions, however, are the result of speculation.

The trouble with most religions is found in their extreme supporters. Since we all have our personal beliefs, it doesn't matter that the next guy may disagree with your's. The insistance of the religious right in America bears upon the entire investigative process, as does the extreme position held by many that, we were in fact, the result of changes in primate physiology.

I for one can agree that unless we really understand the very complex nature of the findings of Darwin and others, we'll never be ready to accept the "other" side of the coin and whip out our Bibles to "prove" our contrary views . This of course leads some to conclude the obvious, we don't know............Yes that's right, we don't really know the origins of our species, we can speculate, but that's about the extent to which most folk's will get, in their lifetime.
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Old 10-13-2009, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, NY
136 posts, read 202,373 times
Reputation: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by 58robbo View Post
did you read sandycat's response to my op? if you did, perhaps you'll see why i responded in the way i did. it is precisely that arrogant closed mindedness which i'd like to address. the idea that this is the theory, case closed. any dissent from this view represents ingnorant stupidity
It is ignorance when you admittedly choose not research it because it is "not worth your time". What's worse, is that you are willfully ignorant.

How can you legitimately dissent from an idea when your idea is not founded on any logic/research/reality?

People probably don't take what you say seriously because you admittedly do not think it is worth your time to know things. Here's a tip: If you want to argue Evolution, go research it. If you want to argue Abiogenesis, go research it. You just cannot legitimately argue anything if you are ignorant of the topic. Nobody will take you seriously.
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Old 10-13-2009, 04:23 PM
 
1,122 posts, read 1,970,685 times
Reputation: 731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
Ummmm... Somewhere along the line you were either taught wrongly, or remember wrongly.

The King James Version of the Bible wasn't around until 1612 - and that's long after the period of history you're talking about.
Many people believe that the KJB is the only valid English version, though they refuse to acknowledge that scribes even went ahead and added wording and cut out parts at that time.

Quote:

The problem with that is the same problem we had when the Roman Catholic Church wiped through Europe, killing, burning, and outlawing anything that they did not have printed in a book that they put together of careful choosing of certain chapters
What I mean by this is that there is a lot of history that is first wiped out, outlawed and still denied to this day by many christian religions. I jjust squished a bunch of the bad from a specific channel of history into one sentence. Women's rights were quickly wiped away and supportd by being jaded in the new bible's version to make women seem less important and playing less important roles.

You seem to forget though, of the Thirty Year War in Spain, and how do you account for witches being burned at the stake in the last half of the 1700's in various countries, or how christianity supported slavery as a God given right, or what the Spanish did to the Natives in Mexico?

Religious violence has gone on for thousands of years and still goes on today. It is not long after the period of history I'm talking about. I'm talking about the stupidity of the beliefs shaped by man (not God) by changing and burning parts of historical documents "for the better of humanity" and the violence "in God's name" throughout historic and modern times.
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Old 10-13-2009, 04:27 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,501,536 times
Reputation: 3869
Quote:
Originally Posted by flik_becky View Post
Many people believe that the KJB is the only valid English version, though they refuse to acknowledge that scribes even went ahead and added wording and cut out parts at that time.
I think you missed the whole point.

Did you pick up on the fact that what you were claiming is factually incorrect?
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