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Old 10-15-2009, 08:16 PM
 
434 posts, read 666,161 times
Reputation: 153

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Quote:
Originally Posted by baybook View Post
I find this an extremely racist and ignorant statement.
I don't think you understand the meaning of the word "racist". Look it up in the dictionary. As for "ignorant statement", well, thanks for the laugh.


Quote:
1) It is a sterotype that one group of people is "better"/smarter/more hard working than others. Many Indians that I have met in the workforce or hired have come to this country with a higher skill set than an entry level American graduate. An entry level graduate can not compete with a person with a master's degree in another country who has spent 2-3 years working for an IT shop in Mumbai. I have also had to deal with many firings or contract workers who were hired by IT managers that bought into your sterotype that an Indian worker is better than a US worker. Workers who appear to be hired based on that sterotype alone. Then they are in the job learning or studying as most entry level folks must do. Depending upon the position, you can either let them learn on your dime, cause problems in the workplace or fire them and start the hiring process again.
before ranting, read the sentence closely and carefully to make sure you understand exactly what is being said.

Last edited by austinite45; 10-15-2009 at 08:26 PM..
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Old 10-15-2009, 08:19 PM
 
434 posts, read 666,161 times
Reputation: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElysianEagle View Post
why dont you go to GetAFreelancer | Online Freelance Jobs | Employment | Design | Outsourcing | Programmers | Web Design | Freelancers, sign up for the newsletter that it sends out and look at the prices being paid for the work required, and you will have all the examples you could possibly need.

to design a good website here in the US could easily cost a few grand, whereas through that site the most ppl. are willing to pay is a few hundred dollars for several days worth of work.

i recently signed up on guru.com to develop iPhone apps. applications that can easily take at least 40 - 60 hours of work were getting bids for as low as $100 and $250. you would have to be working 24/7 cranking out several such projects every week in order to make a living on such wages in the US.
That's already enough examples. Thanks.

I am not looking for extra incoming through such channels. Just curious about the level of compensation from such online coding operations.
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Old 10-15-2009, 09:37 PM
 
2,194 posts, read 2,571,135 times
Reputation: 1483
Quote:
Originally Posted by austinite45 View Post
I don't think you understand the meaning of the word "racist". Look it up in the dictionary. As for "ignorant statement", well, thanks for the laugh.


before ranting, read the sentence closely and carefully to make sure you understand exactly what is being said.
This was your statement
2. Many American graduates aren't as good and hard working as imported techies on H1B.


You have read my response and I understand exactly what you said. Rather than post "quips" as a response, you could address the issues I mentioned.

As for your comment being racist In my mind it is. Here is the definition.
Racism: The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

If I am wrong, for what reason would you say that Many Americans are not as "good and hardworking" as H1b visa candidates?
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Old 10-15-2009, 09:53 PM
 
434 posts, read 666,161 times
Reputation: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by baybook View Post
This was your statement
2. Many American graduates aren't as good and hard working as imported techies on H1B.


You have read my response and I understand exactly what you said. Rather than post "quips" as a response, you could address the issues I mentioned.

As for your comment being racist In my mind it is. Here is the definition.
Racism: The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

If I am wrong, for what reason would you say that Many Americans are not as "good and hardworking" as H1b visa candidates?



you can't handle basic English sentences used in the definition of the word "racist", and you want me to argue with you? Forget it.
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Old 10-15-2009, 09:56 PM
 
2,194 posts, read 2,571,135 times
Reputation: 1483
Quote:
Originally Posted by austinite45 View Post


you can't handle basic English sentences used in the definition of the word "racist", and you want me to argue with you? Forget it.

When one makes a statement, one should be prepared to defend it. Those that make ignorant statements typically try to defend and deflect attention from their ignorance. Figures.
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Old 10-15-2009, 10:01 PM
 
3,894 posts, read 2,971,834 times
Reputation: 2072
Quote:
Originally Posted by austinite45 View Post
1. There aren't enough Americans with science and engineering degrees to fill those jobs.

2. Many American graduates aren't as good and hard working as imported techies on H1B.
BS #1 - Do you have any idea what America used to be in innovation and industry? Where there enough engineers in the 50s and 60s but in 2000 they vanished in thin air? Yes, I know that the corporations would like you to think so, but at least they have a clear financial interest. What is your interest?
Quote:
3. Forget immigration controls. Not only are technical/engineering jobs moving overseas, high tech R&D positions are also disappearing fast. Asia, particularly China, has been projected to displace America as the largest market for high tech R&D in as little as 10 years. In 15 years, many well educated American scientists and engineers will be applying for Chinese green card to work in China. In fact, Chinese leaders are already implementing various plans to attract leading Western scientists with high salaries and favorable work environment. Cities like Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, and Hong Kong are set to outclass New York, Chicago, Paris, Frankfurt and London in 10-15 years.
Slow down body... Just cool down...Take a glass of cold water, it helps. I have yet to see the Americans (or Canadians or West Europeans) witing in line to move to China or India

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic_Vega View Post
It raises a question.. if this really is the case, then is the American really worth the six figures for that job?
Absolutely agreed! But are the CEOs that make 20, 50 or $100M REALLY worth that money? I know, they moved everything to China but still, are they worth that much?
(To me the answer is clear - if they do worth the money, so do the engineers making 6 figure salaries, as well as technicians and assembly line workers, proportionally)
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Old 10-15-2009, 10:14 PM
 
43,189 posts, read 47,049,205 times
Reputation: 13678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Read Culture of Critique View Post
I am a Computer Scientist, and am very familiar with the H-1B sham system for expunging from the workforce, perfectly qualified Americans for low cost labor imported from Third World countries.

There is no "salary review" from the Department of Homeland Security.

On average, corporations save 66% over American workers by hiring cheap, indentured labor via the H-1b program. Anybody with an H-1B visa making 65k+ a year is doing a job that would pay an American six figures a year and not require 80 hour work weeks.

As far as starting a SW company, the OP stated they were interested in IT, not running a business.
Ceahp is much different that qualfied IMO. We see the best scientist sayng all the time and bery adminsitrtion saying we are short of teh best in math and scianeces. Our educators also say this.
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Old 10-16-2009, 06:39 AM
 
Location: Richardson, TX
15,985 posts, read 14,433,021 times
Reputation: 13332
Quote:
Originally Posted by austinite45 View Post
While I don't dispute such possibilities, I have to wonder what percentage of these non-science degree holders are as competent or well-prepared as science degree holders when it comes to problem solving.

I myself have never worked with an I.T. guy without a CS or engineering/Math degree. Frankly, I doubt that anyone can easily switch to a technical field from a non-technical field. It's not just the subject matter; the analytic problem-solving skills most I.T. jobs require take a long time to develop.
I am the top developer in my group. My degree is in a liberal arts discipline. All of my I.T. knowledge is self-taught as I have no formal training of any kind in this field. I do not think that sort of problem-solving ability is unique to science-degree holders nor is it universal to science-degree holders.
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Old 10-16-2009, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
636 posts, read 572,185 times
Reputation: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by baybook View Post
H1B Visas in IT are way more than 10k per year and much more than 1% of the IT work force in this country. Try closer to 115,000 per YEAR. I believe the visas are good for 5 years. So multiple that by 5 and that will give you an idea of how many are in this country.
The cap is 65,000 and includes filings for renewal.
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Old 10-16-2009, 07:53 AM
 
2,194 posts, read 2,571,135 times
Reputation: 1483
In 2007 and in every year prior the cap was increased from 65000 to some where over 100,000. I did not pull numbers for 2008.

So, I believe I am correct. Even using your number of 65,000 assuming it was not increased in 2008, the numbers are sky high. Also, I was wrong, they are not for 5 years, but for 6 years.

THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE PEOPLE THAT WORK IN ACADEMIA OR RESEARCH facilities.

2008 65000
2007 115, 000
2006 115, 000
2005 117, 000
2004 131, 000
2003 195,000
2002 195,000
2001 195,000


Quote:
Originally Posted by Collective View Post
The cap is 65,000 and includes filings for renewal.
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