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Old 10-21-2009, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
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Default Should we have state sponsored marriage?

The Justice of the Peace thing in Louisana got me thinking, should the state be marrying anyone at all?

After all, in large part it is a religious ceremony, but what is the difference between two people who decide to live together for the rest of their lives, and two people who choose to be married?

Should they not be treated the exact same way? Why should someone be punished for deciding not to get married.

The myth of the marriage penalty - MSN Money

Shouldn't everyone be taxed exactly the same, and treated exactly the same, regardless of their marriage status, parental status, age, wealth, and all of the other things the government seperates us into little groups for?

Why does the state push for marriage anyway? Because it solidifies the family? Does the child suffer if their parents simply live together forever, rather than take official vows? The answer is no, as the legal parent of a child you have equal authority over a child, regardless of marriage status, unless you have been proven unfit and a court ordered sole custody to the other parent. Otherwise, both parents get equal say.

I'm not saying abolish marriage. Marriage could simply be a religious ceremony, like baptism that the state has no bearing on, and doesn't discriminate for or against.

This would effectivley end the gay marriage, the plural marriage, and the interacial marriage questions once and for all.
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Old 10-21-2009, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
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If you want marriage to be legally recognized, you have to have a mechanism to register the marriage. Same as childbirth. So you agree that the birth of children ought to be formally registered with the state?

Should a person be allowed to have multiple spouses? How do you control it without a way to register marriages? If a man owns a house, and dies, what happens to the widow if there no state-recognized marriage?
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Old 10-21-2009, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
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All cars have to be registered with the state. All marriages, divorces, separations and child births as well. I see no problem here. If individuals want a religious marriage as well it is their choice.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:00 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
All cars have to be registered with the state. All marriages, divorces, separations and child births as well. I see no problem here. If individuals want a religious marriage as well it is their choice.
Choice is a good thing.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
If you want marriage to be legally recognized, you have to have a mechanism to register the marriage. Same as childbirth. So you agree that the birth of children ought to be formally registered with the state?

Should a person be allowed to have multiple spouses? How do you control it without a way to register marriages? If a man owns a house, and dies, what happens to the widow if there no state-recognized marriage?
Birth certificates are given to the children of single mothers every day. My child was born, and I wasn't married, yet he has my name and I'm listed as the father on the birth certificate. No marriage needed.

About death, its called a last will and testament, which you can give whatever you want, to whomever you want.

I'm saying there should be no legal description of marriage, none whatsoever. To the state, it shouldn't matter if you are married, single, divorced, living together, whatever you decide to do. The state should see everyone as individuals, plain and simple. No marriage benefits, no going to the courthouse for a license, none of that.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post

About death, its called a last will and testament, which you can give whatever you want, to whomever you want.
.
No you can't. In most states, and probably all of them, you cannot write a legal spouse out of a will. A probate judge is bound to award at least half the estate to a legal and surviving spouse. There are a few exceptional assets, such as a family inheritance distributed to one of the spouses, which is retained separately and never entered into community property. But in general, the surviving spouse is automatically entitled to half, no matter what the will says.

That's how our society believes it should be, and we have enacted laws to register marriages to that end.

Last edited by jtur88; 10-21-2009 at 09:40 AM..
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:55 AM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
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Should we have state sponsored marriage?

No, we shouldn't. Let me start by saying that I have nothing against marriage. If I found the right person and I was also right for her, I'd marry her. That is my promise to her that she is my world.

However, the state should have nothing at all to do with marriage. There should be no incentive or disincentive from the state to marry. There should be no legal contract between mates (and there should be one hell of a lot more personal commitment). I see marriage as a religious matter and/or a personal vow. In the eyes of the state, there should be no such a thing as marriage. No tax breaks, nothing. It should be completely transparent to the state whether two people cohabit in a religious marriage or are just 'shacking up.'

Think about it: that would end all the squabbling about polygamy, gay marriage, etc. As a legal entity, there would be no such thing as a marriage and nothing to discuss.

Last edited by ChrisC; 10-21-2009 at 10:03 AM..
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Old 10-21-2009, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post

Think about it: that would end all the squabbling about polygamy, gay marriage, etc. As a legal entity, there would be no such thing as a marriage.
You forgot to mention parentage and child custody. And pregnant "wives" being thrown out penniless to beg in the streets by sociopathic mates. Or men, for that matter, coming "home" and finding all their clothes thrown out on the lawn and the lock changed. Formal marriage is the recourse when humans behave this way, which they will.
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Old 10-21-2009, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
23,491 posts, read 10,314,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
You forgot to mention parentage and child custody. And pregnant "wives" being thrown out penniless to beg in the streets by sociopathic mates. Or men, for that matter, coming "home" and finding all their clothes thrown out on the lawn and the lock changed. Formal marriage is the recourse when humans behave this way, which they will.
I'd just write a rental agreement.

As far as wives being thrown out penniless, thats their fault for not saving money or earning their own living. The same thing could happen to a man being a stay at home father.

As far as your other point on leaving a spouse out of a LW&T. If there weren't a spouse, no legal "you're married" then your things would go to whom you wanted.

Marriage is a social contract between you and another individual. It could be litigated as such. My problem is that the state offers incentives to marry, instead of treating everyone equally. Why should the state favor the married over the single, thats just wrong.
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Old 10-21-2009, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
38,741 posts, read 36,414,540 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
My problem is that the state offers incentives to marry, instead of treating everyone equally. Why should the state favor the married over the single, thats just wrong.
The state offers incentives to everything, according to its collective vision of a well-ordered society. In this case, it reduces its responsibility to protect people from broken relationships, by expecting the individuals to assume that responsibility themselves, and establishing a framework in which to enforce that.

If you don't want to get married, then don't. But the state would prefer to not have to pick up the pieces when you dump your girlfriend after promising to support her and then take the car and the house and the kids.
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