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we seem to be making progress here jtur. i could be wrong but braunwyn's earlier posts seemed to suggest that she was in favor of the current system. she now seems to have changed her stance in favor of regulated prostitution.
Don't get me wrong, I find prostitution appalling and only the dregs of society engage, but I'm always pro-regulation; with pretty much everything. What I stated earlier, IIRC, is that legalization does not thwart trafficking. This was a response to a post suggesting that it might. Legalization is correlated with increased trafficking, as noted by the links I provided (if I'm thinking of the same thread).
Either way, you're not making progress. I'm sure your views will continue unfettered. And if I'm reading correctly, your partner is pro-regulation any way. Maybe you can make progress with eachother.
Don't get me wrong, I find prostitution appalling and only the dregs of society engage,.
Maybe a person who starts out from that position ought to recuse herself from participation in a balanced, reasoned discussion.
Authorities in Melbourne, Australia, believe that at least half the working prostitutes in that city are college girls working their way through school. If a young woman wishes to better her legitimate professional status through higher education and finds a way to earn the necessary funds do do so without wasting a great deal of what would otherwise be studying time earning a minimum wage, I find it difficult to characterize that as "dregs of society". I hardly think all the hookers got together on the street corner and said "Hey, let's go to college". More likely, decent girls, rather than putting the touch on their financially-strrapped dad back in Porpoise Spit, said "Hey, let's find some johns".
However, one could argue that the university, extracting high fees in exchange for education, could be classified as a pimp, living off the avails of prostitution. Money from the johns goes straight to the bursar's office. The girls don't even get a cut. Don't tell me the university doesn't know what is going on.
Don't get me wrong, I find prostitution appalling and only the dregs of society engage, but I'm always pro-regulation; with pretty much everything. What I stated earlier, IIRC, is that legalization does not thwart trafficking. This was a response to a post suggesting that it might. Legalization is correlated with increased trafficking, as noted by the links I provided (if I'm thinking of the same thread).
Either way, you're not making progress. I'm sure your views will continue unfettered. And if I'm reading correctly, your partner is pro-regulation any way. Maybe you can make progress with eachother.
Firstly, lawyers, high ranking politicians (arguable) and ministers can hardly be termed the "dregs of society". And considering the annual, untaxed wages, of some of the more exclusive women? Well, I wouldn;t call filthy rich being in the dregs.
Secondly, what you supplied, if I recall, was links to an increase in trafficing i LV, a place where it it, in fact illegal, and a place known to be a haven for organized crime.
Thirdly, there is certainly regulation, but there are areas where it is totalyl uncalled for. "Regulate everything" has crept into our National mentality.
Sorry, but as long as there are consenting adults invovled that are not directly impacting anyone else, there is no call for regulations.
What I stated earlier, IIRC, is that legalization does not thwart trafficking. This was a response to a post suggesting that it might. Legalization is correlated with increased trafficking.
the crime in this case is trafficing and that's what the authorities should concentrate on. i know that there are people who have been trafficed to work as sex slaves. there are also people who have been traffied to work as slaves in many different jobs.
i will never use the argument that legalising prostitution or drugs will lead to lower crime rates. i have also never used the argument that mj has medical benefits or that it reportedly safe etc. for me the only argument is that we are supposed to be living in a free society
Maybe a person who starts out from that position ought to recuse herself from participation in a balanced, reasoned discussion.
If you only want to speak with people that share your pov then take it to DM, rather than a public board. Providing I stay within the terms of service, I'll participate when I feel inclined to do so. Promoting non-regulation is far from balanced. It's thoughtless and doesn't approach reason imo.
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Authorities in Melbourne, Australia, believe that at least half the working prostitutes in that city are college girls working their way through school.
I'd like to see those demographics if you have the link. It would certainly fit the wanting ideal for needy men. In my quick searches I find this...
Firstly, lawyers, high ranking politicians (arguable) and ministers can hardly be termed the "dregs of society".
You might want to re-read this ^^^ statement. Considering the term's definition includes "The basest or least desirable portion" I think a lot of people would disagree.
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And considering the annual, untaxed wages, of some of the more exclusive women? Well, I wouldn;t call filthy rich being in the dregs.
The reality is that most women end up in prostitution due to disparity. Commodifying a person due to disparity doesn't sit well with me. I doubt it would sit well with most, but willful ignorance does the job pretty well with touchy subjects.
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Secondly, what you supplied, if I recall, was links to an increase in trafficing i LV, a place where it it, in fact illegal, and a place known to be a haven for organized crime.
No, I supplied documentation from .govs covering an interantional scope, not just LV.
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Thirdly, there is certainly regulation, but there are areas where it is totalyl uncalled for. "Regulate everything" has crept into our National mentality.
Well, I cannot think of better ideas. For example, if a person smokes, they pay a higher premium. Why? Because they will be taken care of (by themselves or by society). If you are engaging in risky behavior it is the only responsible thing to do. Unfortunately, personal responsibility is not a popular concept for many. What I have in mind, for example, is if you prostitute, you should be licensed. To obtain a license you must have an std test. You must also have business insurance. If you're engaging prostitutes, again, you pay higher premiums for your insurance, however the market dictates. This is not unreasonable. I'm sure you don't complain that restaurants must be up to health codes, etc.
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Sorry, but as long as there are consenting adults invovled that are not directly impacting anyone else, there is no call for regulations.
Sorry, but I don't think you have thought your position through well enough.
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Originally Posted by 58robbo
the crime in this case is trafficing and that's what the authorities should concentrate on. i know that there are people who have been trafficed to work as sex slaves. there are also people who have been traffied to work as slaves in many different jobs.
Well, whatever the case may be, my responses specifically addressed an erroneous claim. One thing I came across that was surprising is that it's not only prostitution that runs hand in hand with trafficking, but also the softer side of the sex industry. There was one report reviewing a region in Canada with flourishing strip bars. I came across this a couple of years ago in a news article. I didn't link it here, tho, I'm sure it's archived on the net some where.
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i will never use the argument that legalising prostitution or drugs will lead to lower crime rates. i have also never used the argument that mj has medical benefits or that it reportedly safe etc. for me the only argument is that we are supposed to be living in a free society
Free seems to be a relative term. I'm certainly not a prude, just the opposite. I take no issue with free love, sex willy nilly, etc. I'm an atheist, so I'm not bound up with a moralistic code when it comes to sex. Again, when disparity is involved, it's simply not a level playing field for all. Some have more freedoms/choices than others. That's my biggest concern. And I suspect it's not a concern for Johns or pimps.
Sorry---the point is that Laws do not now, and have never in the past, in fact, prevent crimes.
Correct.
But the idea of laws and incarceration is not to prevent the crime, it is to prevent the repetition of the murders, rapes, kidnappings, etc. When the criminal is in prison or swinging from the end of a rope, it's kind of hard for him to continue the crimes. Of course, in our victim society, we'd rather him continue than take a stand against him.
Again, as for the question of prostitution: what two consenting adults do is their business unless it's infringing on the rights of others.
You might want to re-read this ^^^ statement. Considering the term's definition includes "The basest or least desirable portion" I think a lot of people would disagree.
You insinuated that onyl the "dregs", as in hobos, drunks, meth adicts, drug dealers, pervs, and the undercurrent of society partake of prpostitution.
This is, of course, an inaccurate comment on your part.
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Originally Posted by Braunwyn
The reality is that most women end up in prostitution due to disparity. Commodifying a person due to disparity doesn't sit well with me. I doubt it would sit well with most, but willful ignorance does the job pretty well with touchy subjects.
Well, you're one who would know about willful ignorance. Also, pelase feel free to show where I claimed, or even hinted, that all prostitutes were high class dames pulling in 6 figures a year.
And, sicne you obviously haven't stopped to think about, ponder this. Yes, many times women turn to prostitution as a last resort. Why do you think they do? Becasue it is ilelgal, unregulated, and hidden in the shadows of society.
legalize and regulate, and not only do those that feel they must turn to the industry to make ends meet have a much better working environment free from illegal drug use, battery and assault, disease and murder.
Then again, with people like you it's all about control couched in false morality.
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Originally Posted by Braunwyn
No, I supplied documentation from .govs covering an interantional scope, not just LV.
I saw nothing that substantiated your point whatsoever.
If you only want to speak with people that share your pov then take it to DM, rather than a public board. Providing I stay within the terms of service, I'll participate when I feel inclined to do so. Promoting non-regulation is far from balanced. It's thoughtless and doesn't approach reason imo.
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I want to speak with people who have a POV that does not stem from their expressed personal disgust for the private lives of an entire class of people whose rights and dignity are being discussed.
To recuse is a voluntary act, done as a courtesy to those who seek a fair result.
You seem insistent on equating prostitution with human trafficking. Nobody here has spoken out in favor of human trafficking. It is hard to see where totally free prostitution, unfettered by law or social custom, would foster human trafficking any more so than any other degrading employment. Do you object to piece-work assembly or domestic service or field labor or mineral extraction merely because human trafficking is used as a device to man those forms of employment?
The fact that you personally would not wish to be a prostitute does not enter into the proposition any more so than the fact that I would not personally wish to be a Bolivian tin miner nor a Indonesian rice planter or wiping butts in a nursing home in Dubuque.
Prostitution is a direct result of sexual inequality, and would not exist without a social construct of sexual inequality. It is predicated on the idea that men are free to be promiscuous, but women are not, unless they are relegated to a lower social class. I would think that you, above anyone else here, would be in favor of a social order in which the manifestations of sexual inequality would be minimized or absent.
Maybe a person who starts out from that position ought to recuse herself from participation in a balanced, reasoned discussion..
Jtur88, she has as much right, and possibly more right, to her opinion than you have to yours. After all, she has NOT asked YOU to refrain from speaking your mind. You, on the other hand, have stated that you do not wish to hear her opinion. Perhaps YOU should recuse yourself from debates....
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