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Old 11-12-2009, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
38,741 posts, read 36,383,228 times
Reputation: 28630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesota Driver View Post
Run, and scream like a girl?
Aha. You are a great deal more perceptive than most of your fellow posters, to whom this highly effective defense has never occurred. This defense has the added advantage of always being ready at hand, never has to be cleaned or loaded, requires no permit to carry it, it is easy to attain a black belt in this discipline with no practice at all, and there is no danger that any strong-arm thug will try to appropriate it for himself. Wearing glasses also helps. If the above doesn't work, one can go on to plan B, which is to curl up in the fetal position and put your thumb in your mouth, which will disarm almost any assailant. But you are only partly right.

The other strategy is to avoid carousing with strangers in sleazy bars at closing time. Or otherwise placing myself in the proximity of people who are likely to cause me harm, and antagonizing them.
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:30 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
6,922 posts, read 4,867,494 times
Reputation: 4465
If martial arts are taught properly, they can be quite useful, but many people who enroll in classes do so in the mistaken belief that the art they have chosen will be some kind of silver bullet in a confrontation. Since Karate is the specific art of this thread, lets look at that. Karate is often taught by the mastery of rigid Kata's, which must be demonstrated and then the student moves up in rank. While Kata is great , as a form of exercise, it actually does little to ones ability to defend themselves. Traditional, read real Japanese, Karate schools, stress harsh conditioning. The premise behind this is the knowing, that in real combat, you WILL be hit, hard, and must take as well as give. With equal ...enthusiasm. Many American 'Karate' schools will teach all the pretty Kata, and will condition for strength with certain exercises, however, they lack the training that conditions the mind to keep the body moving in great pain. Such as the pain of being hit , hard. A person who has studied Karate their whole life, in a studio, will be defeated by a hardened street fighter who has lost as many as he has won. That, IMHO, is a gimme.
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Old 11-12-2009, 10:09 AM
 
Location: SoCal - Sherman Oaks & Woodland Hills
12,980 posts, read 17,910,902 times
Reputation: 10491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaskateguy View Post
Does anyone else feel it only gives some People a false sense of security. Leading them to believe that they can defend themselves more than they actually can. Any thoughts or experiences.
There are so many issues and variables when it comes to martial arts, mcdojos, students/idiots with egos, that its impossible to encapsulate that info on a single post.

You can equally blame poor instruction and poor ability of the student to learn. Many guys go into a training situation thinking they already know how to fight and thus never learn anything. These same types also fail to see that the self defense aspect of martial arts training is but a very very small part of the experience. Its like someone wanting to be a phd mathematics but only concentrating on learning up to basic multiplication.

I would get guys coming to train with me saying how they have black belts in this art, black belt in another art, 10 years training in this style of kung fu, and feel like they wasted their time because mistakenly come to the conclusion that those arts sucked. I always tell them, "Those martial arts dont suck, YOU suck which is why you have no skill". Of course a lot of the times its that their sensei/sifu/guro/coach was terrible at teaching and probably was just in it for the money instead of propagating the art.

There are martial arts out there for everyone depending on their body type and goals. There are those that deal specifically for REAL self defense (not MMA fighting and not sport or tournament fighting) and these REAL arts are Silat, Wing Chun, Escrima, Xing-I and some forms of karate. I believe that when you have complete confidence in your art and have trained to a high level, you DO attain a complete and TRUE sense of security. Unfortunately, its always the idiots like the OP mentioned that most of "Joe Public" hears about.

Another huge problem is that people do a "mish mash" of training - 2 years in this art, 3 years that art, a little of MMA here, some BJJ there and they think they know it all and proceed to go out and try to prove it. Go to any Martial Arts internet forum and you'll see hundreds of these types of guys posting and hanging out saying things like "I tried "X art" for a few months but quit because I didnt agree with the footwork they were teaching". Well no duh idiot, no wonder you have no skill. Its like someone taking up calligraphy but decide to quit because they didnt want to be taught how to hold a pen.
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Old 11-12-2009, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Houston/Heights
2,637 posts, read 2,631,621 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I'm over 70, and I have never lost a fight in my life. In fact, nobody has ever even landed a punch. Anybody wanna know my secret?
Quick Feet??
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Old 11-12-2009, 10:37 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
6,922 posts, read 4,867,494 times
Reputation: 4465
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaoTzuMindFu View Post
There are so many issues and variables when it comes to martial arts, mcdojos, students/idiots with egos, that its impossible to encapsulate that info on a single post.

You can equally blame poor instruction and poor ability of the student to learn. Many guys go into a training situation thinking they already know how to fight and thus never learn anything. These same types also fail to see that the self defense aspect of martial arts training is but a very very small part of the experience. Its like someone wanting to be a phd mathematics but only concentrating on learning up to basic multiplication.

I would get guys coming to train with me saying how they have black belts in this art, black belt in another art, 10 years training in this style of kung fu, and feel like they wasted their time because mistakenly come to the conclusion that those arts sucked. I always tell them, "Those martial arts dont suck, YOU suck which is why you have no skill". Of course a lot of the times its that their sensei/sifu/guro/coach was terrible at teaching and probably was just in it for the money instead of propagating the art.

There are martial arts out there for everyone depending on their body type and goals. There are those that deal specifically for REAL self defense (not MMA fighting and not sport or tournament fighting) and these REAL arts are Silat, Wing Chun, Escrima, Xing-I and some forms of karate. I believe that when you have complete confidence in your art and have trained to a high level, you DO attain a complete and TRUE sense of security. Unfortunately, its always the idiots like the OP mentioned that most of "Joe Public" hears about.

Another huge problem is that people do a "mish mash" of training - 2 years in this art, 3 years that art, a little of MMA here, some BJJ there and they think they know it all and proceed to go out and try to prove it. Go to any Martial Arts internet forum and you'll see hundreds of these types of guys posting and hanging out saying things like "I tried "X art" for a few months but quit because I didnt agree with the footwork they were teaching". Well no duh idiot, no wonder you have no skill. Its like someone taking up calligraphy but decide to quit because they didnt want to be taught how to hold a pen.
Yep, simply put, the question is, is someone willing to unlearn what they have leaned? That goes to respect for the chosen school for the chosen art, and ones reasons for enrolling. Level of commitment is very much an individual thing. Not everyone is cut out for serious martial arts training. In the end, it's not about the fighting, that is where many people don't 'get it'. Lol, if one merely wishes to learn to fight, there are plenty of rough drinking establishments that can accomodate that.
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Old 11-12-2009, 01:53 PM
 
7,212 posts, read 7,192,052 times
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Lyoto Machida is a karate expert and is tearing up the UFC. This doesent prove anything but im pretty sure that someone with karate would be better well rounded than someone without any knowledge o fighting at all.
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Old 11-12-2009, 02:38 PM
 
Location: SoCal - Sherman Oaks & Woodland Hills
12,980 posts, read 17,910,902 times
Reputation: 10491
Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
Now, if you want to make distinctions twixt schools, there are some good ones, and some pretty pathetic ones. I have seen Karate ,Aikido and Kenjutsu/Kendo taught in 'traditional' manner, by Japanese sensei. Their methods are slightly...different, than what you would see in a standard American 'dojo'. Conditioning is much harsher, much more emphasis is placed on discipline and respect, the honor of the dojo is sacrosinct, this is not you cash and carry type of training. So, yes, there are schools and then there are schools. If one is serious about training, do check out more than one place. Stay away from the palces with pictures of board breaking and rows of tounament tophies.
This is a good post. Some other things to stay away from:

1. Contracts. There are "teachers" out there who make you sign what they call "Black Belt Contracts" that guarantees you a black belt, providing that you honor the 36 month $125 per month contract and pay all of your test fees on time.

2. Tournament schools. These are some of the worst. Tournament training is COMPLETELY different than self defense training. Its basically a fancy game of Tag. You see trophies in the window, turn around and leave the school.

3. Ethics/honor/virture. If the instructor has to cuss while teaching to make a point or gets a kick out of hitting/hurting his students then walk away. He's just feeding his own ego.

Another problem that has come about in the last few years is so many schools opening saying they teach "MMA". MMA is the new Tae Kwon Do which means its a sport, not a true martial art. You have a lot of "Bros" driving around in their lifted up trucks and baseball caps on sideways or backwards who think MMA/BJJ is the end all-be all when it comes to fighting because of the UFC and Tank Abbot (who btw has zero martial arts training) and the like. These are the guys who think that after a few weeks of heavy bag training and learning a couple of chokes to go along with their lifetime of getting into fights, that they can whip the world. Lots of these new schools cater to these types of wannabe tough guy non-know-how-to-fight fighters.
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Old 11-12-2009, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Texas
27,804 posts, read 22,309,657 times
Reputation: 32935
Mmmm...with most of the striking arts, unless you are really big and strong or really superbly lightening fast, I wouldn't go looking for a fight. I've seen bunches of little dudes (and gals) with black belts (real ones) who got flicked off like an annoying gnat. They were better prepared to fight, but it didn't guarantee 'em hooey.

Now, the mixed martial arts with grappling/hapkido/aikido...there you may have a real advantage against someone bigger and stronger than you.
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Old 11-12-2009, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Houston/Heights
2,637 posts, read 2,631,621 times
Reputation: 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Aha. You are a great deal more perceptive than most of your fellow posters, to whom this highly effective defense has never occurred. This defense has the added advantage of always being ready at hand, never has to be cleaned or loaded, requires no permit to carry it, it is easy to attain a black belt in this discipline with no practice at all, and there is no danger that any strong-arm thug will try to appropriate it for himself. Wearing glasses also helps. If the above doesn't work, one can go on to plan B, which is to curl up in the fetal position and put your thumb in your mouth, which will disarm almost any assailant. But you are only partly right.

The other strategy is to avoid carousing with strangers in sleazy bars at closing time. Or otherwise placing myself in the proximity of people who are likely to cause me harm, and antagonizing them.
You Sir, seem to be a Wise Man. Keep up the good work.
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Old 11-12-2009, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Houston/Heights
2,637 posts, read 2,631,621 times
Reputation: 942
It has been my limited experience, that a person cornered, and not given a way out, can be a handful indeed. training or no training.
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