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Old 11-11-2009, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
15,194 posts, read 17,707,264 times
Reputation: 7981

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
The Concealed Carry Permit is intended to limit the carry of handguns to the people who have made a demonstrated effort to be responsible about gun ownership, competent in their use and care, and securing the potentially dangerous weapon, in order to reduce the risk of it falling into the hands the malevolent.
Erm, not really.

It's more about making sure that A) you're not restricted from carrying a gun, and B) you know when the use of deadly force is appropriate and justified. Some (most?) states will also make you prove that you can hit a target at 15 feet with it.

That's about as far as CCW goes. The issuing agency doesn't care how clean you keep your gun or how you secure it when you're not carrying it. Depending on the state, there may already be regulations in place to govern those things. The agency that issues the CCW is only interested in things directly related to your carrying a weapon for protection.
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Old 11-11-2009, 04:04 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,087,877 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mirjaja View Post
Gun laws don't keep guns out of criminals hands,
But they sure are a nifty thing to have hanging around if an when a criminal is caught carrying one!
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Old 11-11-2009, 04:16 PM
 
Location: MS
3,972 posts, read 3,862,988 times
Reputation: 1376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaskateguy View Post
If a person commits a crime, and pays what ever price society deems reasonable, then why is that not enough punishment? If there is no end to the term of punishment, then we are basically giving them a "Life Sentence" for a simple felony, such as stealing a car.
Simple felony? When is a felony simple? I've made it 41 years without a single urge to steal a car. I've never stolen anything from another person. I can't say that I haven't stolen from a business. I've taken pens from work and didn't say anything when the cashier at the grocery store scanned 11 cans of soup and I ended up with 12 in the bag when I got home. But not committing felony theft is pretty easy to accomplish.

I do know that some states have a path to restore the rights lost in a felony conviction. I'm not sure which rights are restored. It could be only voting. It could all rights. I haven't had the need to look that deeply into it. But I don't see anything wrong with non-violent felons owning a gun.

As for the 2nd part of your post, you don't have to pay a fee to protect yourself or your family in your home. You are in TX and there is no permit required to own a gun. I'm with swagger on the rest. Carrying in public raises the risks to you and others.

Here in MS, I did not have to take a test, attend any classroom instruction or even show I was proficient with my pistol. I paid my fee to cover the background check and my license was mailed to me 45 days later. I have taken it upon myself to learn the law as written as well as read the state attorney general's opinions on different situations. The other people I know who also have a carry license have either done the same or they are former law enforcement and know the rules. Before having the carry license, I was still a gun owner. I followed the rules as layed out by the state as to when I took the gun out of the house.
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Old 11-11-2009, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,653,762 times
Reputation: 35881
Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger View Post
Erm, not really.

It's more about making sure that A) you're not restricted from carrying a gun, and B) you know when the use of deadly force is appropriate and justified. Some (most?) states will also make you prove that you can hit a target at 15 feet with it.

That's about as far as CCW goes. The issuing agency doesn't care how clean you keep your gun or how you secure it when you're not carrying it. Depending on the state, there may already be regulations in place to govern those things. The agency that issues the CCW is only interested in things directly related to your carrying a weapon for protection.
That is the stated reason offered by the authorities, but what I described is closer to the philosophical reason underlying it. Yes, they do care, a lot , whether your secure your gun from theft, but they are sensible enough to know that they cannot control that---but they can impose oversight that leads them to believe that the CC permittee recognizes ordinary gun responsibility, which includes the element I described.

There is a general presumption that most guns used in crimes are stolen, and reducing the theft of guns is a centerpiece in efforts directed toward gun regulation. No liberal would very vigorously argue for gun control if there were none passing into the hands of criminals.
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Old 11-11-2009, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Lenoir/Morganton, NC
148 posts, read 522,947 times
Reputation: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
In 2007, there was one murder and one rape in Lenoir, North Carolina. I bet the victims were close associates of the perpetrators. If I were living in your neighborhood, I doubt if I would lose all that much sleep worrying about it. In fact, if I lived in your neighborhood, I'd be more afraid of you than them, armed with your .45 and thinking everyone is a threat to you.
I wonder where the data came from, if it was city limits only [most residences in Caldwell County are outside the Lenoir city limits - the city itself is mostly businesses, with the residential areas being mainly in smaller townships on the edge of the city]. The FBI UCR reports that the murder rate is around 1.6% the national average, per capita, even though property crime is lower. I'm not sure about rape, but it seems to be in the papers at least weekly. We've had 1 LEO killed and 5 shot with the past year and a half or so, and we have gang activity including the Bloods, Crips, & MS-13 in the surrounding area.

I worked as a prison guard for 6 years, so occasionally I see some of my lovely former wards in the grocery store or out around town, and I'm sure I'm not on all of their favorite persons' lists. I also work in a job where I find myself alone in places, often out in the boonies, with people I usually don't know very well. Looking at the world realistically, I prefer to watch out for my own safety - a lot of places around here take law enforcement 1/2 hour or more to get to, if you can get a cell phone signal to make the call. I don't think everyone's out to get me, but I also know that certain types of criminals like to target lone young women, that there have been several Realtors killed on the job in the past few years [both rapes & robberies], and that I would not fare very well trying to defend myself alone, unarmed, and 6 months pregnant against a potentially armed attacker, even if he "only" had a knife or other legal but dangerous object.

eta: If you want a slightly more realistic picture of the crime situation in this area, try HickoryRecord.com and look at the headlines, usually a few crimes, and at least 1 or 2 violent ones a day just scanning the headlines. The smaller papers are still doing like many small towns - under-reporting or shoving everything into a police blotter page to attract people to the area and make their advertisers happy.

Last edited by Raine Carraway; 11-11-2009 at 05:05 PM..
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Old 11-11-2009, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Houston/Heights
2,637 posts, read 3,883,953 times
Reputation: 961
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
If everybody in the US were issued a handgun by somebody who said "Here, carry this around with you", 90% of them would be stolen within a week. The Concealed Carry Permit is intended to limit the carry of handguns to the people who have made a demonstrated effort to be responsible about gun ownership, competent in their use and care, and securing the potentially dangerous weapon, in order to reduce the risk of it falling into the hands the malevolent.

So, yes, I am in favor of the principle of the concealed carry limitation, even though its effectiveness has natural limitations, and even though there is a noisy radical fringe who imagines that there is somebody who wants to take all their guns away, but cannot tell me who that somebody is.
You make some very valid points. With all respect though, I don't see how paying a fee to the Gubment should be a requirement for a person to be able to have the same right of self defense as his neighbors. The right of self defense comes from God, not the Gubment.
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Old 11-11-2009, 09:16 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,484,664 times
Reputation: 47456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaskateguy View Post
Oh, like they don't have them now.--- What problem do you have with Family, and Civil rights? Is there anything you do like? You seem bitter. can I get ya a Dr. Pepper or something?
apparently they dont all have weapons-- some felons still on CDF pitching to get some.. felons dont care too much about civil rights and family, if they did they wouldnt be in jail.
no thanks, ill get my own drink.dr pepper sounds bitter.

Last edited by Huckleberry3911948; 11-11-2009 at 09:32 PM..
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Old 11-12-2009, 07:47 AM
 
Location: New Kensington (Parnassus) ,Pa
2,424 posts, read 1,815,498 times
Reputation: 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Considering that there are only a few dozen known mass murderers alive in the USA and virtually all of them are incarcerated, I have a hard time accepting your characterization as relevant.

The number of convicted felons who used a firearm in their crime is also very, very tiny. Whether or not an ex-convict has a gun would be immaterlal to the safety of having him next door.

If a person has been in prison for fraud or drunk driving or child molesting or tax evasion or auto theft of drug trafficking or identity theft or burglary, what would I care if he has a gun or not?
I was talking about anyone who commits a heinous crime , mass murderer was just an example. I doubt very much you would want a murderer living next door to your family.
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Old 11-12-2009, 07:50 AM
 
Location: New Kensington (Parnassus) ,Pa
2,424 posts, read 1,815,498 times
Reputation: 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaskateguy View Post
And a big axe
Sure, then he can chop you up when he is done shooting you, great idea

Last edited by aveojohn; 11-12-2009 at 07:50 AM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 11-12-2009, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 49,615,444 times
Reputation: 24548
I would like to see Concealed Carry Permits effective in all jurisdictions just like drivers licenses. I do not see why a CCP issued in Londondery, New Hampshire should not be valid in Boston, New York or Wash DC.

I also beleive that convicted felons lose the right to carry firearms along with the right to vote. That is part of paying their "debt to society".
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