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This is one of my concerns as far as issues with race and crime are concerned:
Recently, I have heard about the Mayfair and Riverwest incidents. All of these incidents have occurred in predominantly White areas in the Milwaukee metropolitan area, and both incidents having African-American perpetrators. Both involved large groups of people, in the form of mob violence. My worry is about how African-Americans as a whole will be perceived, especially around the Milwaukee area. A metro area that already has a history of bad race relations, this is just going to make things worse. One of my worries is that everyday life will be harder for those who happen to be African-American. Some of the perpetrators have been turned in by their own parents, so that will be a few less people committing any more acts of violence.
This is exactly what I mean: With those acts of mob violence, many people are going to be wary of African-Americans, to the point of being afraid of any African-American who happens to be around. This means being treated differently, like a suspect, and often unfairly. African-Americans who have nothing to do with the persons who committed the acts of violence will have to live with this, not because they've done anything wrong, but because this is often how things work. The way I look at it, it's not fair to people like me, who are law-abiding citizens, who won't hurt people.
I totally agree, and is why people 'like us'...who are of color, non-white, are starting to despise urban 'thug' types...cause they make life hard on the rest of us...
Urban thug types, the only enviornments they have to exist in is the inner city, they never leave there, so they're always sorounded by other street folks...
But people like 'us'...we often have to carve out our existence far and away from Colfax & 84 street...
We have to apply for jobs, live and dwell in communities where it is imperative that if we want to get ahead or promoted, people think well of us...
Well all that's hard, or made harder to do, when you have a certain criminal element running around creating bad PR for all of us...
Obviously they're their own people...and have nothing to do with me or you...but humans are weak and flawed in their thinking, and as a result always follow the easy lazy path...which it to 'lump'...all such and suches together based on A,B or C...
I'm to the point where I'd rather live in a society where there were only 5 million blacks, who where 'together', responsible, law abiding, and goal orientated, than to be burdened by 20 million folks, who's habits were counter productive to healthy growth...regardless of reasons...
I totally agree, and is why people 'like us'...who are of color, non-white, are starting to despise urban 'thug' types...cause they make life hard on the rest of us...
Urban thug types, the only enviornments they have to exist in is the inner city, they never leave there, so they're always sorounded by other street folks...
But people like 'us'...we often have to carve out our existence far and away from Colfax & 84 street...
We have to apply for jobs, live and dwell in communities where it is imperative that if we want to get ahead or promoted, people think well of us...
Well all that's hard, or made harder to do, when you have a certain criminal element running around creating bad PR for all of us...
Obviously they're their own people...and have nothing to do with me or you...but humans are weak and flawed in their thinking, and as a result always follow the easy lazy path...which it to 'lump'...all such and suches together based on A,B or C...
I'm to the point where I'd rather live in a society where there were only 5 million blacks, who where 'together', responsible, law abiding, and goal orientated, than to be burdened by 20 million folks, who's habits were counter productive to healthy growth...regardless of reasons...
I got tired of the "urban thug culture" a long time ago, when I was 16. I never grew up in the ghetto. I just watched some of my fellow African-Americans act like that. The "thug" types aren't just in the inner cities anymore. Many of them have moved to suburban areas. For instance, in Atlanta, the housing projects have been getting torn down. Some of the residents who fit the "thug" type have moved to suburban areas such as in Clayton County. It is a matter of taking the "hood" mentality wherever one might go.
I think there are some people who don't understand or care that people like you and I are trying to get ahead and do better. I can recall one poster on another thread trying to justify Blacks not being hired. He basically said that when an employer doesn't want to hire Blacks he is "playing the odds". Basically, if this is true, then alot of people's lives and livelihoods are being fooled around with.
The thugs that you and I try not to associate ourselves with, well, they get the most attention. People like us don't get too much attention because it doesn't sell.
You've got a point about the laziness factor. It is alot easier for people to be lazy and lump people like us with thugs. And the consequences from that can be disturbing.
What you have outlined is basically one part of the struggle for African-Americans who want to do better, or who are doing good thing with their lives. In some cases, it means being called "sell outs" by other African-Americans. It some cases it can mean being viewed with suspicion by some White people. It is a matter of being living in limbo to a certain extent.
I read the stuff about living in "the hood". Some of it is scary. Some of it is just kind of crazy. I wouldn't want to live around that.
I got tired of the "urban thug culture" a long time ago, when I was 16. I never grew up in the ghetto. I just watched some of my fellow African-Americans act like that. The "thug" types aren't just in the inner cities anymore. Many of them have moved to suburban areas. For instance, in Atlanta, the housing projects have been getting torn down. Some of the residents who fit the "thug" type have moved to suburban areas such as in Clayton County. It is a matter of taking the "hood" mentality wherever one might go.
I think there are some people who don't understand or care that people like you and I are trying to get ahead and do better. I can recall one poster on another thread trying to justify Blacks not being hired. He basically said that when an employer doesn't want to hire Blacks he is "playing the odds". Basically, if this is true, then alot of people's lives and livelihoods are being fooled around with.
The thugs that you and I try not to associate ourselves with, well, they get the most attention. People like us don't get too much attention because it doesn't sell.
You've got a point about the laziness factor. It is alot easier for people to be lazy and lump people like us with thugs. And the consequences from that can be disturbing.
What you have outlined is basically one part of the struggle for African-Americans who want to do better, or who are doing good thing with their lives. In some cases, it means being called "sell outs" by other African-Americans. It some cases it can mean being viewed with suspicion by some White people. It is a matter of being living in limbo to a certain extent.
I read the stuff about living in "the hood". Some of it is scary. Some of it is just kind of crazy. I wouldn't want to live around that.
Funny thing is I'm not from the 'hood' either...
I'm from rural Washington state...
Wheat farms and canyons...but now I live in the SE, a urban area...
Totally different...I suppose when I was younger, I would of thought such a location would be 'cool'...but not now...no way...
I can't stand what I see most of the time, certain habits, habits handed down instead of changed...
But not all is bad...I do see some positive in the midst of it all...
But like you said above, the negitave tends to set the 'tone'...or mood of the hood...
Oh well...at least I'm glad to know I'm not alone in feeling the way I do...
But inspite of my feelings towards certain attitudes in the hood...I still can't stand or ever tolerate racism...
Cause it has nothing to do with race...rather enviornment and ethics...and how and where one is raised...(and other factors...including religion or spirituality)...
I look at the urban problem not in terms of color or race, but rather in terms of condition and or culture...or at least I try to...
Funny thing is I'm not from the 'hood' either...
I'm from rural Washington state...
Wheat farms and canyons...but now I live in the SE, a urban area...
Totally different...I suppose when I was younger, I would of thought such a location would be 'cool'...but not now...no way...
I can't stand what I see most of the time, certain habits, habits handed down instead of changed...
But not all is bad...I do see some positive in the midst of it all...
But like you said above, the negitave tends to set the 'tone'...or mood of the hood...
Oh well...at least I'm glad to know I'm not alone in feeling the way I do...
But inspite of my feelings towards certain attitudes in the hood...I still can't stand or ever tolerate racism...
Cause it has nothing to do with race...rather enviornment and ethics...and how and where one is raised...(and other factors...including religion or spirituality)...
I look at the urban problem not in terms of color or race, but rather in terms of condition and or culture...or at least I try to...
I think I've been through there before, at least when I left the state of Washington.
I live in a "semi-urban" area in the southeast as well.
I understand the hate against racism. I don't like it either. Part of the point that people like you and I are trying to put out there is that skin color and race have nothing to do with the behavior in the ghetto.
The negative gets played more often than the positive. And your not alone in the way you think. Alot of African-Americans are trying not to live in places like you described.
I do agree with what you said about crack being a major factor. Hip-hop started to become about bling and violence during the crack epidemic. African-American males started going to jail in record numbers. Violence, well, the violence was in the streets before then, but the crack epidemic just added fuel to a fire.
Location: Currently I physically reside on the 3rd planet from the sun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner
I am seeing many threads and the dialogue I see isn't very productive. There are issues regarding crime. There are also some racial issues in this nation. Before any stats are brought up, I do not want this thread to be a "bash this race" thread. I am going to check the statistics. This stuff about IQ and race, well, IQ tests are biased anyway, so that really shouldn't be used. I want this thread to be of productive and proactive dialogue. It should be about finding solutions to very difficult problems. My view is this: Correlation is not causation. Race and crime are only correlations. We need to ask the "why" these things happen and what can be done to make things better, to solve problems, to create a more fuctional community for everyone.
End the war on drugs.
You can argue that thw War on Drugs is not racist but it doesn't change the fact that nearly 25% of our prison population is non-violent drug offenders and the majority of those non-violent offenders are minorities.
You can argue that thw War on Drugs is not racist but it doesn't change the fact that nearly 25% of our prison population is non-violent drug offenders and the majority of those non-violent offenders are minorities.
I'll give my input on this.
I highly discourage the use of cocaine or crack. Both drugs basically do the same thing to your brain. They lead to a multitude of problems. On the other hand, you have a point about the war on drugs. It isn't working. The only thing it's doing is putting more people in prison. People who use drugs should be getting treatment, not incarceration. The war on drugs has only succeded in making more violence.
This is why I'm glad I grew up in the Bay Area. In the Bay, criminals and gang bangers come from all different nationalities. Crime is definitely not a just a Black or Hispanic thing in the Bay Area. Class outweighs race in terms of who chooses a criminal path because of lack of opportunities in many places in the Bay Area. Oakland is the most diverse big city in the nation, it also is consistently in the statistically top ten most dangerous cities list every year. Type in "East Oakland" into a Myspace people search and all nationalities of young people pop up wearing grills in their mouths with flat brimmed fitted baseball caps, flashing gang signs, guns, liquor, weed and wads of dollars.
Where I live now in Maryland is much more stratified along racial lines. Unlike the Bay Area and California, impoverished Asians and Pacific Islanders living in urban areas virtually do not exist. Most Asians out here are more one dimensional being Korean liquor store owners or successful highly educated professionals. Cohesively, the idea of Asians/Pacific Islanders slanging and banging and living in the hood out here is unfathomable to most people who have never spent any real time in California or any other major West Coast city (every West Coast city from Anchorage to Seattle to San Francisco to Long Beach has a heavy visible presence of Asian and Pacific Islander gangs). Similarly, the vast majority of Hispanics in Maryland are recent immigrants from Central American countries like El Salvador and Honduras. Unlike California or New York, American-born Hispanics who grew up in American cities do not exist in Maryland. In cities like DC, the racial dichotomy is extremely strict. Whites are rich in DC and Blacks have the whole spectrum from upper middle class to dirt poor. Baltimore is a more level playing field with poor/working class White and Black populations. There are overwhelmingly White working class neighborhoods in Baltimore that are just as statistically dangerous as the worst Black neighborhoods in that city. For instance, Hampden is about 93% White and it is just as statistically dangerous as the predominantly Black neighborhood of Park Heights:
This is why I'm glad I grew up in the Bay Area. In the Bay, criminals and gang bangers come from all different nationalities. Crime is definitely not a just a Black or Hispanic thing in the Bay Area. Class outweighs race in terms of who chooses a criminal path because of lack of opportunities in many places in the Bay Area. Oakland is the most diverse big city in the nation, it also is consistently in the statistically top ten most dangerous cities list every year. Type in "East Oakland" into a Myspace people search and all nationalities of young people pop up wearing grills in their mouths with flat brimmed fitted baseball caps, flashing gang signs, guns, liquor, weed and wads of dollars.
Where I live now in Maryland is much more stratified along racial lines. Unlike the Bay Area and California, impoverished Asians and Pacific Islanders living in urban areas virtually do not exist. Most Asians out here are more one dimensional being Korean liquor store owners or successful highly educated professionals. Cohesively, the idea of Asians/Pacific Islanders slanging and banging and living in the hood out here is unfathomable to most people who have never spent any real time in California or any other major West Coast city (every West Coast city from Anchorage to Seattle to San Francisco to Long Beach has a heavy visible presence of Asian and Pacific Islander gangs). Similarly, the vast majority of Hispanics in Maryland are recent immigrants from Central American countries like El Salvador and Honduras. Unlike California or New York, American-born Hispanics who grew up in American cities do not exist in Maryland. In cities like DC, the racial dichotomy is extremely strict. Whites are rich in DC and Blacks have the whole spectrum from upper middle class to dirt poor. Baltimore is a more level playing field with poor/working class White and Black populations. There are overwhelmingly White working class neighborhoods in Baltimore that are just as statistically dangerous as the worst Black neighborhoods in that city. For instance, Hampden is about 93% White and it is just as statistically dangerous as the predominantly Black neighborhood of Park Heights:
Well, the way the whole OP is worded.........uh, it sounds like someone wants to hear what is already repeated over and over and over and over and over again. You see, if I was to chime in about what I feel is factually correct with reference to crime and race........well, my post would not stay up very long.
So, have at it............I will just watch from the sidelines and avoid getting suspended.
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