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That was the most non-objective statement I've ever heard on the topic of objectivity.
If i had dreamed it up on my own accord then it would have been non objective ; but because it comes directly from the Bible which even you have appealed to in order to ascertain the teachings of Christ, it therefore comes from an independent objective higher source.
If i had dreamed it up on my own accord then it would have been non objective ; but because it comes directly from the Bible which even you have appealed to in order to ascertain the teachings of Christ, it therefore comes from an independent objective higher source.
Yes, I used the bible is an objective source of what Christ said. But it is not an objective proof of the truth of what Christ said. Do you see the difference?
Das Kapital is an objective source of what Marx said. But it is not an objective proof of the truth of what Marx said.
The Koran is an objective source of what Mohammed said. But it is not an objective proof of the truth of what Mohammed said.
UFOs are from Mars. That is from an objective source, because I did not dream it up on my own accord. Right?
Yes, I used the bible is an objective source of what Christ said. But it is not an objective proof of the truth of what Christ said. Do you see the difference? .....
Why shouldnt Christs teachings be considered the absolute objective truth ? Can you site one of his teachings that has errors in it or is detrimental to a person/society , along with why that is so ? How can we prove that something or someone is giving us the objective truth and is thus worthy of our complete trust ?
Why shouldnt Christs teachings be considered the absolute objective truth ? Can you site one of his teachings that has errors in it or is detrimental to a person/society , along with why that is so ? How can we prove that something or someone is giving us the objective truth and is thus worthy of our complete trust ?
You're kidding, right? Jesus taught that the world is flat, and that the sun revolves around it.
You're kidding, right? Jesus taught that the world is flat, and that the sun revolves around it.
I must say, I wasnt aware of that. Well...that sure would disqualify him as being The Son of God if he told us that huge inaccuracy ; please tell us where in the Bible you found that so we can trust you as a reliable messenger Source. Thanks.
I must say, I wasnt aware of that. Well...that sure would disqualify him as being The Son of God if he told us that huge inaccuracy ; please tell us where in the Bible you found that so we can trust you as a reliable messenger Source. Thanks.
Everything that Jesus said was true, was "taught" by Jesus. Including the Old Testament account of the shape of the earth.
Every description of the earth in the OT makes it clear that the earth was flat. Jesus, it must be presumed, endorsed everything in the OT, particularly with reference to what God created. Otherwise, he would have said something to correct the OT version of the reality of the world.
So, if the OT describes the earth as flat, and Jesus went along with it and asserted that it was a truth, that is a confirmation of a flat earth by Jesus Christ. Jesus "taught" the the OT accounts were true, except where Jesus contradicted them, and biblical scholars are not particularly hasty to acknowledge that Jesus contradicted any OT accounts.
How could the earth ever be described as under the heavens, and upon the seas, if it were a sphere where there is no up or down? (Exodus 20:4, right there nice and conspicuous in the Ten Commandments, no matter how they tried to juggle it in any of the 20 or so "true" versions of the bible)
“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;
"You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.
Show me where Jesus, in order to teach that the earth is a sphere, corrected that geocentric and geometric error in the OT, which he otherwise endorsed the correctness and validity of. Jesus taught that the OT was true, and there is what he taught. That from every point on earth, heaven was up, and the seas were down. How could that configuration be possible from the Jesus-taught round earth?
Everything that Jesus said was true, was "taught" by Jesus. Including the Old Testament account of the shape of the earth.
Every description of the earth in the OT makes it clear that the earth was flat. Jesus, it must be presumed, endorsed everything in the OT, particularly with reference to what God created. Otherwise, he would have said something to correct the OT version of the reality of the world.
So, if the OT describes the earth as flat, and Jesus went along with it and asserted that it was a truth, that is a confirmation of a flat earth by Jesus Christ. Jesus "taught" the the OT accounts were true, except where Jesus contradicted them, and biblical scholars are not particularly hasty to acknowledge that Jesus contradicted any OT accounts.
How could the earth ever be described as under the heavens, and upon the seas, if it were a sphere where there is no up or down? (Exodus 20:4, right there nice and conspicuous in the Ten Commandments, no matter how they tried to juggle it in any of the 20 or so "true" versions of the bible)
“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;
"You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.
Show me where Jesus, in order to teach that the earth is a sphere, corrected that geocentric and geometric error in the OT, which he otherwise endorsed the correctness and validity of. Jesus taught that the OT was true, and there is what he taught. That from every point on earth, heaven was up, and the seas were down. How could that configuration be possible from the Jesus-taught round earth?
Your conclusions would be quite correct about Jesus IF the OT did in fact teach the world was flat...but it does not. Many Critics have this common misconception and it is based on taking the verse out of context in order to help justify their hostility toward The Bible and ultimately, The Creator whom they dont wish to acknowledge . There are only TWO references in the Bible to the shape of the earth...and those are in Isaiah 40:22 '..the circle of the earth' (sphere) and Job 26:7 ..'He (God) hung the earth on nothing' .
“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth" . ANSWER : Heaven refers to the dwelling place of God and not the physical heavens (or cosmos) . Water under the earth refers to the seas under the dry land of the earths surface. It wasnt The Bible that had the Earth as flat..but rather the prevailing science of the day had it flat and sitting on the backs of four huge animals . In so many instances,The Bible got it right long before modern science confirmed it as absolute fact . Would you like a lengthy list of what scientific processes I am referring to ?
If you want to avoid making common misconceptions about the Bible, Id like to suggest the book called 'When Critics Ask' by Dr. Norman Geisler (www.impactapologetics.com) who lists over 600 alleged contradictions of the Bible with complete explanation in chronological order, from Genesis to Revelation . The Forward of the book lists the most common 17 mistakes that Critics make when attacking the Bible . I think you would find the book a very interesting read.
Isaiah 40:22 '..the circle of the earth' (sphere) and Job 26:7 ..'He (God) hung the earth on nothing' .
Heaven refers to the dwelling place of God and not the physical heavens (or cosmos) . Water under the earth refers to the seas under the dry land of the earths surface.
Press the eject button on your disc drive and tell me the shape of the thing that is in there. It is shaped like a "circle" but still flat. Circle is a two-dimensional form, and is flat by definition. And the fact that something is "hung" does not imply that it is not flat. Got any pictures on your wall? You're grasping at straws to defend a concept that you are afraid to let go of.
If the heavens are not physical, why are they described with a spatial reference ("above"). If the seas mean ground water beneath the surface of the earth, why the fuss about images or likenesses of things that live there? The caution to avoid making an "idol in the form anything in the waters below" would be ludicrous if it meant aquifers, where there are no living things. How could they equate well water from aquifers with the sea, and think they were the same body of water, when they knew perfectly well that one was saline and the other fresh? The sea was the sea, period, and nobody in OT times ever thought anything different, and there is no sea below the earth, which is also, by the way, not flat.
Last edited by jtur88; 12-18-2009 at 03:49 PM..
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