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Old 12-02-2009, 05:29 PM
 
1,462 posts, read 523,410 times
Reputation: 790
There will always be poor. There will be those who cannot work either due to age, youth, illness etc. The other cause is our economic system (which I am not being critical of, since the mixed economy model we have had for over 200 years works better than any alternatives). We consider "full employment" to be about a 4% unemployment rate. With 305 million, that is about 12 million that need to be unemployed; this does not count the underemployed. What they have an obligation to do is to live honestly. But one cannot expect them to be more honest than everyone else - take a look at the number of uber-rich tax cheats that had their Swiss bank accounts located or how many of us have paid someone cash to do a job rather than write a check to their business.
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Old 12-02-2009, 05:32 PM
 
4,090 posts, read 3,085,190 times
Reputation: 1226
The OP has completely ignored evolution, which is one of the core liberal positions. If one believes in evolution, discounting creation and/or God, then clearly he must also recognize that in nature, every animal in a given species will not be equal. There are dominant members of every species on the planet.

The liberal notion that we can legislate "equality" continues to puzzle me. Many on this forum argue about the rights each American has. They fail to note that the rights afforded to each of us in the Constitution are "God given" rights according to our founders. Anybody who does not see the irony is blinded by partisan politics.
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Old 12-02-2009, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
38,741 posts, read 36,577,849 times
Reputation: 28653
Quote:
Originally Posted by GOPATTA2D View Post
The OP has completely ignored evolution, which is one of the core liberal positions. If one believes in evolution, discounting creation and/or God, then clearly he must also recognize that in nature, every animal in a given species will not be equal. There are dominant members of every species on the planet.

The liberal notion that we can legislate "equality" continues to puzzle me. Many on this forum argue about the rights each American has. They fail to note that the rights afforded to each of us in the Constitution are "God given" rights according to our founders. Anybody who does not see the irony is blinded by partisan politics.
But you, of course, are not blinded by partisan politics.

What about those who believe in evolution and think for ourselves, and don't just think what you want us to think? It is also clear to thinking human beings that the capacity to think allows for the capacity to form social organizations that are not based on the law of the jungle. Some of us, who look around us at reality, have noticed that some of the species on the planet are more social and gregarious than others. You have not been paying attention, if you have not observed that.

I do not at all "fail to note" what the founders said. I just don't agree with absolutely everything they said. Some of us think for ourselves.
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Old 12-03-2009, 03:38 AM
 
1,718 posts, read 1,364,804 times
Reputation: 610
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
Exactly my thought when I read the OP. I'm about as individualist/libertarian as they come, but even I think the OP premise is ludicrous. If it were satire, it might get a smile (maybe). But that's just because my sense of humor is very dark. But it's really not funny at all.

I'm not a big fan of the social net we have right now, but spinning 180 degrees is not the way to go. I just can't imagine having a neighbor out of work, with no food and starving to death, and I just watch her die of starvation because I'm not feeling charitable that month. WTF? What would that make me? That's truly sick.

Actually, forget reading Swift. Go with Marquis de Sade's darker works.
You are confusing someone who is 'down on their luck' and will probably rebound with the vast majority of the chronically poor. The majority of chronic welfare recipients do not have the mental capacity or ability to produce even what they need to survive.

The chronic welfare recipents are not folks down on their luck. They are basically unemployable. Too add fuel to this fire, those who can least afford children have the most children. These people have more children on average than the rest of society. Their numbers as a percentage of society is growing and will continue to grow.

This situation is unsustainable in the long run. The OP is correct in that Darwin says that most of these people should perish. This is natures way of improving a species and ensuring the survivability of a species. Instead we 'carry' these folks and their off spring.

There will be a tipping point beyond which there won't be enough produced by the productive members of society to carry all the non-producers. At that point Darwin will take over again.

Darwin will win in the end. It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature. In fact you cannot. Mother Nature will always win in the end.

- Reel
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Old 12-03-2009, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
38,741 posts, read 36,577,849 times
Reputation: 28653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reelist in Atlanta View Post

The chronic welfare recipents are not folks down on their luck. They are basically unemployable.l
So, why should the unemployable be sent to job sites where people are trying to get work done, when there is nothing for them to do there in the first place?

For most people, "down on their luck" starts when they are in elementary school and are neglected and unsupervised by their parents and uninspired by their school and are in that 50% of the population that has below average intellect and fall in with the wrong company and toxic role models. Just because you were stupid and neglected and still became successful doesn't mean that everyone can beat those odds.
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Old 12-03-2009, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Houston/Heights
2,637 posts, read 2,638,286 times
Reputation: 942
"Get a job, any job"---it's that simple
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Old 12-03-2009, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
38,741 posts, read 36,577,849 times
Reputation: 28653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaskateguy View Post
"Get a job, any job"---it's that simple
Memo to employers: "Hire somebody, anybody"---it's that simple.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Houston/Heights
2,637 posts, read 2,638,286 times
Reputation: 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Memo to employers: "Hire somebody, anybody"---it's that simple.
Exactly--- I find little jobs for folks in need all the time. I can't offer much, as I don't have much. but I help my Neighbors. but I NEVER give them hand outs. "work or starve".
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Old 12-03-2009, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Middle Earth
491 posts, read 425,030 times
Reputation: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawdog View Post
Most "poor" in America today are there by either choice or upbringing. Most are the product of generations of living on the welfare system, and feel they are entitled to receiving free housing, food, utilities, heath care, etc.

The Katrina refugees in 2005 were prime examples of this, with the majority still receiving government paid housing in varied parts of the country. I personally saw a nice Arlington, Texas apartment complex destroyed into a ghetto after only six months of the refugees living there. Garbage strewn in the parking lot, grafitti written on walls, windows broken out intentionally, many refugees drinking heavily at 9:00 a.m., and cars burglarized nightly.

Crime in the area increased by 300% since the refugees arrived. Most there in late 2005 are still there, still unemployed, and still living on government handouts. There is no excuse for this life style, other than pure ignorance and laziness. But these "poor" have cable, large screen HDTVs, money to buy beer, liquor, dope, and 20" chrome rims for their "rides," yet can't pay their rent, food or medical bills.
are you sure about this? This logic seems to be based more on hate of the poor then actual facts.
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Old 12-03-2009, 04:57 PM
 
3,566 posts, read 2,966,911 times
Reputation: 1828
Say it ain't so!!!

Never let the facts get in the way.
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