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Old 12-14-2009, 07:36 PM
 
Location: DFW
40,931 posts, read 48,978,236 times
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From what I've read here, I guess many non-gun owners consider us gun owners idiots with a weapon.

As many of us idiots with weapon exist and out in public with our weapons, you would think the non-idiots would want a gun to protect themselves from us idiots.

Those idiots do some crazy stuff, I would sure want to protect myself.

 
Old 12-14-2009, 08:00 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,579 posts, read 86,722,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakin View Post
From what I've read here, I guess many non-gun owners consider us gun owners idiots with a weapon.
.
Actually, I consider everybody to be a sort of an idiot (including myself), in that any person has limited wisdom and judgment, and can be expected to make some poor and regrettable decisions. If they are gun owners, they are idiots with a weapon. If I'm going to live among idiots, I'd rather live among idiots without weapons.
 
Old 12-14-2009, 09:09 PM
 
Location: In the Axis of Time
164 posts, read 297,897 times
Reputation: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Actually, I consider everybody to be a sort of an idiot (including myself), in that any person has limited wisdom and judgment, and can be expected to make some poor and regrettable decisions. If they are gun owners, they are idiots with a weapon. If I'm going to live among idiots, I'd rather live among idiots without weapons.
That isn't possible. You would have to ban guns, knives, forks, hammers, screwdrivers, saws, cars, steel toed boots, sticks, rocks, and so many other things that could be used as a potentialy deadly weapon. We will always have idiots and the means of them killing.
 
Old 12-14-2009, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,579 posts, read 86,722,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnt-User View Post
That isn't possible. You would have to ban guns, knives, forks, hammers, screwdrivers, saws, cars, steel toed boots, sticks, rocks, and so many other things that could be used as a potentialy deadly weapon. We will always have idiots and the means of them killing.
There are some pretty obvious differences.
1. None of those can kill a person at 100 yards.
2. There is a difference between a thing with another useful purpose which can be a potential deadly weapon and a thing that is designed with no other useful purpose than to be a highly efficient deadly weapon.
 
Old 12-14-2009, 09:44 PM
 
11,550 posts, read 53,018,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
There are some pretty obvious differences.
1. None of those can kill a person at 100 yards.
2. There is a difference between a thing with another useful purpose which can be a potential deadly weapon and a thing that is designed with no other useful purpose than to be a highly efficient deadly weapon.
So how do you explain the increase in assaults and murders in a "civilized society" such as England now that they've banned/confiscated concealable weapons from the public? There's more murders now than there were with firearms readily accessible and legal in the public domain.

They've had so many knife assaults that they've now banned knifes with pointed ends. All the new knives must have a rounded, blunt dull end. IIRC, they are going to require all the knifes in the hands of the public to have the ends rounded off.

All of the weapons ... or objects that can also be used as one, including sticks and stones and string or pencils or hammers or ? ... don't change the underlying desire and/or capacity of one individual to inflict harm upon another.

That's what separates law-abiding citizens (who might have a firearm) from the idiots. You don't see wild west shootouts in any of the states where concealed carry is legal ... the whole paradigm of legal & responsible firearm ownership didn't change because it suddenly became legal to carry, despite the alarms sounded by those who opposed such legalities. Having ready access to a firearm didn't turn law-abiding citizens into aggressive criminals; those who would be performing criminal acts before firearms were more readily available were and will be continuing to perform criminal acts.

I'd rather be prepared for the day when/if somebody attempts to use violence and deadly force against me or my family. As it is ... as I have posted in these threads many times in the past ... I have had two situations present in my life where my having a firearm in my immediate possession stopped a violent criminal assault/rape in progress. The unarmed victims were mighty happy that I just happened to be nearby and was able to be of assistance. I'd again point out that I didn't seek out those situations and the last thing I'd want to be is a "hero" ... but circumstances came about as they did and I was able to rationally respond with the best tool for the job to defuse the situation. Nobody was shot .... but I sure felt a lot safer being of assistance from some distance away rather than trying to engage in hand-to-hand combat, especially against a drug-crazed 300 lb fellow who clearly was much larger and physically stronger than I (and his intended victims).
 
Old 12-14-2009, 11:06 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,579 posts, read 86,722,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
So how do you explain the increase in assaults and murders in a "civilized society" such as England now that they've banned/confiscated concealable weapons from the public? There's more murders now than there were with firearms readily accessible and legal in the public domain.
.
Easy question. You take guns away from idiots and they find something else to kill with. Why did murders increase? Lots of people were bad shots, and missed. But with a hammer, you just keep on hitting until they are dead.
 
Old 12-14-2009, 11:56 PM
 
5,762 posts, read 11,610,020 times
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Actually, England and Wales recently recorded a 20-year low in the murder rate:

Killings are lowest in 20 years

People in the UK didn't have many pistols to begin with, and concealed carry hadn't been legal since the 1930's or so - so, the ban wouldn't have had a big impact one way or another.
 
Old 12-15-2009, 04:53 AM
 
11,550 posts, read 53,018,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn View Post
Actually, England and Wales recently recorded a 20-year low in the murder rate:

Killings are lowest in 20 years

People in the UK didn't have many pistols to begin with, and concealed carry hadn't been legal since the 1930's or so - so, the ban wouldn't have had a big impact one way or another.
Did you read the article or just capture the headline for it's dramatic effect to prove your point?

In the body of the article, it also asserts that other studies have shown that:

1) Knife crime is way up

2) 2/3 of the crimes in England aren't being reported by the official police logs so the police blotter looks "better" than the actual crime rates

3) They attribute fewer "murders" because the medical services have improved to a point where they're keeping more people from dying than would have in similar knife attacks from years ago. That's wonderful news ... your chances of not dying from a knife attack now are better than ever, but they're not keeping you from getting attacked to begin with.

Again, the study does a great job of lying with statistics, where they congratulate the trend of fewer murders ... but don't mention what the crime or murder rates were in comparison prior to the most recent decade they're reporting. And that's because the murder rates of prior decades were, in fact, lower ... back before the gun bans went into effect.
 
Old 12-15-2009, 05:33 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 59,627,700 times
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I have observed that the more guns in the hands of law abiding peaceful citizens, the fewer criminal assaults. Just not knowing weather the victim is armed or not deters many criminals. Attempting an assault against a gun toting civilian is way too dangerous.

The major anti firearm forces appear to be the police who would rather see everyone disarmed with them holding a total monopoly on weapons and criminals that want easier meat. I do not agree with either because I do not totally trust police or I am not willing to be a victim.

I do not carry a firearm all the time because I have assessed my travel patterns and have decided I don't need a gun. When I go to places that I feel are dangerous I am armed. My gun, my choice and I do not believe a government that tells me I am safe without being armed.

In any case if someone decides to own a firearm they should, but not must, learn how and when to use the thing. You must be absolutely certain of your own abilities before you travel armed.
 
Old 12-15-2009, 07:17 AM
 
77,970 posts, read 60,134,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Under Michigan law, any person may request a tag from any law enforcement officer to take a roadkill deer. The driver of the car that hits the deer has priority, and if he doesn't, then anyone else may claim it. There is enough roadkilled deer in Michigan for every resident of the state to get a pound of venison every year.
My sister-in-law had a number of lean years as a kid in a large family in Michigan. Roadkill deer (and other animals) did not go to waste on them.

Also, some guy in Wisconsin racked up 1million miles on his car in Wisconsin (salesman) and gave it to a museum. He hit something like 8 deer with that car during it's life.
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