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I've made my case with a step-by-step analysis, none of which you even attempt to dispute under the guise of irrelevancy. I appreciate the fact that it takes a little moral courage to voice unpopular conclusions, but your inability to even stay calm long enough to digest the argument, let alone refute it, makes this exchange ultimately useless. It's not a debate. It's a thrashing, rebutted by anger. Again, it would seem you don't understand what constitutes evidence, and how conclusions are formed on a base level. I give you my interpretation of the historical context that lead to my conclusion, you get confused and ask for evidence. Sorry, Omaha, the world is sometimes a little more layered than that; the answer isn't in a cutesy graph or something.
Finally, Omaha, there are adults talking, and adults watching. If you want to continue a flame-fest of personal attacks, which has been your only accomplishment from the start, get your last dig in and go away. If you're ready to have a seat at the grown-up table, please address the meat of my analysis. I'm be more than happy to have a conversation with you. If my analysis is wrong, explain how.
Deep, calming breathes, Omaha. Big ones.
And once again, you completely fail to back up your Racist KKK-esque claim that "blacks are intellectually inferior."
When you start with a faulty, ignorant, racially-hateful premise, your entire argument is false. Period.
Do you believe, for instance, that President Obama is intellectually inferior to YOU simply because he's black?
So you can either prove your "blacks are intellectually inferior" nonsense with facts, or start over. This time without the racist nonsense.
Last edited by Omaha Rocks; 01-09-2010 at 11:34 AM..
I'm on my way out the door, but I'm hoping while I'm gone some will specify the genes related to higher IQ's (basing this on the mention of the bell curve). What I would also like to see addressed is that the movers and shakers in the west (scientists, etc), over all, tend to have average IQ's. I heard this tid bit while watching a lecture by Ben Barres (sp?).
It's the same reason many people didn't want to go forward regarding the Bell Curve-because we'd rather not know the answer to some questions with proof.
White Europeans didn't conquer the West at-large because they were meanies, as many imply. War is the greatest binding factor across races in human history. The ugly truth is that White Europeans were simply more intelligent and better at it; they evolved in a superior way as a result of the spoils of war success, garnering the social and intellectual rewards that come with better nutrition, more time for enlightenment, and so on.
Black people are, in general, intellectually inferior. Most educated people accept this as common knowledge, hence the desire to keep the testing from being done, as alluded to earlier. I don't say this gloatingly as a white man- it's an awkward reality, but one that must be mentioned when discussing these delicate issues with any semblance of intellectual honesty.
And so, a quick summary of why minority=high crime:
the intellectual inferiority that leads to being non-competitive in an incredibly competitive society.
misguided liberalism that excuses immorality and laziness as a mere self-evident consequence of poverty and(intentionally over-stated)racism, which ultimately manifests into a hip-hop culture of celebrated ignorance and stupidity.
Your assertion that Blacks are intellectually inferior is just a ludicrous attempt to make your self appear intellectually superior; quite frankly, you remind me of gentlemen who like to brag about their sexual prowess when in reality, they are quite inadequate. Your comment is inaccurate, asinine, and borderline purposefully inflammatory.
You lose credibility by making a comment generalizing a socially constructed racial group. You lose credibility in your claim that you are making an intellectually honest statement.
In fact, your comments strike me as the ranting and paranoid remarks of an individual who has probably been overshadowed by the competence, ambition, and talent of an African American colleague in either an academic setting or a professional situation. If making your comments places you in a position in which you feel less threatened, and therefore, more empowered by your "intellectual honesty", please do what you need to do to flex your prowess.
^ I do think you're right. He probably has a supervisor who is black - and absolutely hates it. It must really suck to honestly think that blacks are intellectually inferior, then end up having to work for one.
And once again, you completely fail to back up your Racist KKK-esque claim that "blacks are intellectually inferior."
When you start with a faulty, ignorant, racially-hateful premise, your entire argument is false. Period.
Do you believe, for instance, that President Obama is intellectually inferior to YOU simply because he's black?
So you can either prove your "blacks are intellectually inferior" nonsense with facts, or start over. This time without the racist nonsense.
You're hopeless. There is no number - nothing concrete- where I can prove this in mathematical terms. That's correct. The same can be said for evolution, for example. But alas, evolution is real.
Do you understand that context and observation can manifest into a persuasive argument, or even create a resoundingly obvious answer?
Of course you don't. Insofar as this is true, I'm asking you to address my observational analysis of the general historical context I provided that ultimately concludes what offends you so deeply. Tell me where I went off the tracks. If you can't do that, go away. At that point you're trolling, not discussing.
The Obama question completely misses the point, which is that these truths are true in mass. To answer it anyway as an aside(even though it's what some might call a "double-fail" in that he's half white anyway) no, I don't think I'm more intelligent than Obama.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Siobhan
Your assertion that Blacks are intellectually inferior is just a ludicrous attempt to make your self appear intellectually superior; quite frankly, you remind me of gentlemen who like to brag about their sexual prowess when in reality, they are quite inadequate. Your comment is inaccurate, asinine, and borderline purposefully inflammatory.
Purposefully inflammatory is everything you have written so far- completely and utterly devoid of pointed arguments, it's just a boring personal attack. Hopefully it gets better...
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Siobhan
You lose credibility by making a comment generalizing a socially constructed racial group. You lose credibility in your claim that you are making an intellectually honest statement.
getting worse...still not making an argument..
(generalizing is the literal request of the original question, and of what I'm saying. If I said XYZ black person has a lower intellect because (fill in generalization), then that would be incorrect.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Siobhan
In fact, your comments strike me as the ranting and paranoid remarks of an individual who has probably been overshadowed by the competence, ambition, and talent of an African American colleague in either an academic setting or a professional situation. If making your comments places you in a position in which you feel less threatened, and therefore, more empowered by your "intellectual honesty", please do what you need to do to flex your prowess.
More boring personal attacks.
If you don't have an argument, no problem. But at least try. I'm not the type of douche who would report a post to a moderator, but if I was one, you'd certainly get hit for trolling.
Again, I appreciate the fact that my conclusion is controversial and that I rebut personal criticisms harshly right back at people. I understand this offends some. So, make an argument. Enlighten me. Where did I go wrong, exactly?
You're hopeless. There is no number - nothing concrete- where I can prove this in mathematical terms. That's correct. The same can be said for evolution, for example. But alas, evolution is real.
Thank you for being honest enough to come right out and say that you believe things you have absolutely no evidence to support.
So again... Do you believe that President Obama is "intellectually inferior" to you - and is so because he's black?
You're hopeless. There is no number - nothing concrete- where I can prove this in mathematical terms. That's correct. The same can be said for evolution, for example. But alas, evolution is real.
I don't see how the same can be said for the ToE. ToE is an accepted truth in the scientific community. The body of evidence is clear, predictions are made, and the science is applied. And it does not consist of the goobly gock that often comprises and presents issues for the soft sciences. I'm not completely dawging the soft sciences, to be clear, because it really cannot be helped. But, we need to keep in mind that bias and creative interpretation is an integral part of analysis. Either way, the heritability of intelligence is something we can, or will be able to, wrap our paws around.
Quote:
The Obama question completely misses the point, which is that these truths are true in mass. To answer it anyway as an aside(even though it's what some might call a "double-fail" in that he's half white anyway) no, I don't think I'm more intelligent than Obama.
I went to wiki and followed a couple of citations in an article about African immigrants. I did this because A. I've heard Obama's heritage noted in the past and B. one of my former colleagues in grad school in an African immigrant. He left the whitehead Institute to finish his phd (we were in the same program) and he's now in a tenure track position at BU medical IIRC (or one of the uni's in our area). My experiences with African immigrants have often led me to wonder about the vast differences I note compared to American born folk of African decent. Any way, this is pretty interesting and citations are listed if you want to follow the path...
"Africans have the highest educational attainment rates of any immigrant group in the United States, with higher levels of completion than the stereotyped Asian American model minority. Estimates indicate that a significant percentage of black students at elite universities are African or the children of African immigrants, a notable example of this is Barack Obama.
Harvard University, for example, has estimated that two-thirds of their black population is not traditional Afro Americans. This is true for other universities such as Brown, Yale, Princeton, Penn, Columbia, Duke and Berkeley. As a result, the benefits of affirmative action are not efficiently serving traditional multi-generational black Americans who are descendants of American slaves.
In an analysis of Census Bureau data by the Journal of Blacks in higher education, African immigrants to the United States were found more likely to be college educated than any other immigrant group. African immigrants to the U.S. are also more highly educated than any other native-born ethnic group including white Americans. Some 48.9 percent of all African immigrants hold a college diploma. This is slightly more than the percentage of Asian immigrants to the U.S., nearly double the rate of native-born white Americans, and nearly four times the rate of native-born African Americans." African immigration to the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I suppose these people can be toted as outliers, tho, the fact that these folk may be coming from the elite these nations has to offer, hence a higher SES, isn't something that can honestly be ignored.
I am old enough that I've met many racists of all colors over the years. Without exception, after listening to the arguments they put forth I concluded long ago that all of them were intellectually inferior, at least in this regard.
I don't find their remarks as offensive as I did when I was younger. Back then, I assumed that once they decided to broaden their personal experience horizon and sharpened their critical thinking skills, the fallacy of their belief system would be exposed and they'd be able to see the world as it is. And some do. But this is such a complicated emotional issue that many will not do so. So now I say, live in your version of the world, and I'll keep living in mine.
Since I've been on the planet, society has made great strides in the efforts to marginalize the effects of those who seek to connect intellect with the level of pigmentation found in the skin layers - a notion so patently absurd that I understood it as such when I was still a kid. I realize this behavior by some won't ever cease, because humans love doing this kind of thing.
But the institutionalization of such notions needs to continue to be ferreted out and eliminated.
When young blacks drop out of school, have a police record, yet are decked out in brand name clothes, drive around in cars, and own handguns-----------it isn't far fetched to wonder where they get their money from.
Highly unlikely a young high school drop out with a police record was hired at a legitimate good paying job to support his lifestyle.
Maybe you should move to Corbin, Ky., where the statistics are more to your liking. On the other hand, NOT. I still say sounds hypocritical to me.
If you don't have an argument, no problem. But at least try. I'm not the type of douche who would report a post to a moderator, but if I was one, you'd certainly get hit for trolling.
Again, I appreciate the fact that my conclusion is controversial and that I rebut personal criticisms harshly right back at people. I understand this offends some. So, make an argument. Enlighten me. Where did I go wrong, exactly?
You made no argument. You threw a comment out there with the intent of causing other posters to react and post to you. I posted in response to your drivel because it was utterly without merit and substance. My only purpose in responding to your original post was to point out to other readers how dreadfully improper your comments were.
I quite frankly don't care if you or anyone else reports my statements for being purposefully flaming. Your comments were purposefully flaming. I could report your post but I believe if you received any warning or punishment of any kind, you would probably wear it as a badge of honor.
Let me sum it up for you. You made no argument. You stated your opinion. You did not provide any supporting information to support your opinion. One does not attempt to counterargue with a non-argument. You used big words as an illustration of your alleged intellectual superiority when in actuality, your word usage only shows you to be a poser.
I will gladly accept the smack against my knuckles for that.
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