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Old 04-04-2010, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
9,038 posts, read 6,707,484 times
Reputation: 15687
To Tin Knocker, who would like to be able to get a lump sum payment of all his contributions from Social Security immediately upon retirement: While that might work well for you, if you are disciplined and would invest the money, or if you have other significant sources of income, it would be a disaster as public policy. Can you imagine the whining and hand-wringing after many people have blown the money and then are left with absolutely nothing in their old age? Then the pressure would be on the politicians to take care of these "unfortunates" and our entire society would be much the worse financially. Haven't you observed how many people absolutely cannot hold onto any money? They have a compulsion to spend it, as if they were 5-year-old children. I view this as a form of mental illness, but whether you agree with my view or not, it is a fact that many people are like this.
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Old 04-04-2010, 07:52 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,521 posts, read 4,246,696 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
To Tin Knocker, who would like to be able to get a lump sum payment of all his contributions from Social Security immediately upon retirement: While that might work well for you, if you are disciplined and would invest the money, or if you have other significant sources of income, it would be a disaster as public policy. Can you imagine the whining and hand-wringing after many people have blown the money and then are left with absolutely nothing in their old age? Then the pressure would be on the politicians to take care of these "unfortunates" and our entire society would be much the worse financially. Haven't you observed how many people absolutely cannot hold onto any money? They have a compulsion to spend it, as if they were 5-year-old children. I view this as a form of mental illness, but whether you agree with my view or not, it is a fact that many people are like this.
Chile does it, they invest their funds then they get a lump sum at retirement turned into an annuity with inheritance benefits.
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Old 04-04-2010, 08:06 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
9,038 posts, read 6,707,484 times
Reputation: 15687
That's interesting about Chile. Thank you. "Turned into an annuity" makes all the difference, though. If that is mandatory, then it's not really a lump sum as we normally understand lump sum. Social Security retirement benefits are also a kind of annuity, but without inheritance benefits. Chile seems to be a very rational place in a lot of ways.
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Old 04-04-2010, 08:31 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,521 posts, read 4,246,696 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
That's interesting about Chile. Thank you. "Turned into an annuity" makes all the difference, though. If that is mandatory, then it's not really a lump sum as we normally understand lump sum. Social Security retirement benefits are also a kind of annuity, but without inheritance benefits. Chile seems to be a very rational place in a lot of ways.
Here is an article by the guy who designed it back in 81, I saw him speak years ago, smart guy. The Sucess of Chile's Privatized Social Security
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Old 04-06-2010, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
9,038 posts, read 6,707,484 times
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Thank you for the link, Hilgi. I have read the article and agree that it is quite fascinating. There are some very important differences between the way Chile accomplished its privatization and what was proposed under the Bush administration - differences that would be the difference between disaster and success. I agree that the author seems to be a very smart guy indeed, smart enough to not be in the pocket of the financial oligarchy because he wanted to accomplish something real for the benefit of his country.
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Old 03-09-2012, 08:05 AM
NCN
 
14,084 posts, read 12,018,864 times
Reputation: 16159
Subject: SOCIAL SECURITY NOW CALLED 'FEDERAL BENEFIT PAYMENT'/ENTITLEMENT

Have you noticed, your Social Security check is now referred to as a "federal benefit payment"?
Our government gets away with way too much in all areas of our lives, while they live lavishly on their grossly overpaid incomes! SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT THE ONLY THING WRONG WITH THIS CALCULATION IS THEY FORGOT TO FIGURE IN THE PEOPLE WHO DIED BEFORE THEY COLLECTED THEIR SOCIAL SECURITY!!!! WHERE DID THAT MONEY GO?????????????

This is another example of what Rick Perry called "TREASON in high places" !!!
Remember, not only did you contribute to Social Security but your employer did too. It totaled 15% of your income before taxes. If you averaged only $30K over your working life, that's close to $220,500. If you calculate the future value of $4,500 per year (yours & your employer's contribution) at a simple 5% (less than what the government pays on the money that it borrows), after 49 years of working you'd have $892,919.98. If you took out only 3% per year, you'd receive $26,787.60 per year and it would last better than 30 years (until you're 95 if you retire at age 65) and that's with no interest paid on that final amount on deposit! If you bought an annuity and it paid 4% per year, you'd have a lifetime income of $2,976.40 per month.

The folks in Washington have pulled off a bigger Ponzi scheme than Bernie Madhoff ever had.
Entitlement my butt, I paid cash for my social security insurance!!!! Just because they borrowed the money, doesn't make my benefits some kind of charity or handout!!

Congressional benefits ---- free healthcare, outrageous retirement packages, paid holidays, paid vacation, unlimited paid sick days, now that's welfare, and they have the nerve to call my social security retirement entitlements?

We're "broke" and can't help our own Seniors, Veterans, Orphans, Homeless.

In the last months we have provided aid to Haiti, Chile, and Turkey, etc.

They call Social Security and Medicare an entitlement even though most of us have been paying for it all our working lives and now when it's time for us to collect, the government is running out of money. Why did the government borrow from it in the first place? Imagine if the *GOVERNMENT* gave 'US' the same support they give to other countries.
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Old 03-09-2012, 05:04 PM
Status: "Serendipity as a lifestyle" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: On a hill near a river
14,369 posts, read 11,917,448 times
Reputation: 5715
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
There are some very important differences between the way Chile accomplished its privatization and what was proposed under the Bush administration - differences that would be the difference between disaster and success.
Mind sharing those important differences with the rest of us?

How is privatization in Chile different from privatization here? Why would it be impossible to accomplish what Chile did with a bi-partisan approach to privatization in the US?

Or is there simply so much political traction to be gained by demagoguing Bush ("...Bush adminiastraiotn...disaster...") that it's not worth it for the majority party to even consider doing something "for the good of the country"?
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Old 03-13-2012, 01:33 PM
 
Location: United States
2,497 posts, read 4,050,187 times
Reputation: 2125
To me the biggest BS about Social Security is how much money the govt makes off people who die before they can collect. People under 60 who die in accidents, cancer, whatever, all that SS money that person earned goes in uncle Sam's pocket. Unless they have kids under 18. But millions die who are under the age to collect n don't have kids or the kids are grown. This is wrong. That SS money should be released to the next of kin for funeral expenses etc. SS is a joke all the way around.
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Old 03-16-2012, 06:29 PM
 
Location: In a house
5,227 posts, read 4,887,164 times
Reputation: 2475
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
TK -

I suggest you find a place to live that is free of taxes you object to paying. You would be much happier.

The problems with Social Security would go away if the cap on income was removed and the tax applied to ALL wage earners at a rate necessary to pay current expenses. Eliminating the Social Security Trust Fund would reduce the most regressive income tax we have.

Eliminating the cost of our Imperial Fantasies and using the money for domestic health care, employment insurance and Social Security would allow our seniors to live well instead of in single room apartments because inflation has eliminated most of the value of their forty year pensions. Too bad our industrial economy has been reduced to warmongering to maintain sales and the international oil companies have tapped us as their protection thugs without pay.

Now for Haiti; imagine the poorest city in the US that loses most of its property and 10% of its people. We came part way with New Orleans but Haiti is a hundred times worse. Even this country would need aid if California lost 10 million people and 80% of its infrastructure in some disaster. Do you propose that the rest of our country (like what happened in New Orleans) did not send help?

TK Ė you sound like any money you send to the government, that is not spent on you, with interest, is wasted. Well it ainít. Sending a few millions to help mitigate this Haitian horror show is money well spent even if I have to scrounge up an extra one sixth of the cost of a cup of coffee today. Or is it simply you want complete control of all of your money? If so please note my first comment. Find a place without taxes and move forthwith.

Taxes are not levied for forien aid. It desnt need to be spent on ME, but it shouldnt be spent outside the country & should only be used to run the country at its barest minimum. If we have 100 million extra to give away then we were overtaxed 100 million. But we dont have it to give away anyhow, because we're broke. If our govt were subject to the same laws of reality that govern you & me their checks would bounce. So, if YOU have several trillion dollars of debt and cannot meet your own expenses, do YOU go & give away a few million dollars you dont have? Or do you try to get ahead and act responsibly?

On another note, if CA were to fall into the ocean & we did need help, where would it be coming from & at what scale? Been a long time since anyone helped us out like that & when they did we used it to create the best country on Earth. If we had a track record like Haiti I wouldnt lend us a dime.

Why should I move? This country as founded had virtually no taxation and in case you havent noticed, everything bad about us has escalated in pace with our shift towards socialism. I'd say the fact is that those in favor of our current taxation & liberal socialist trends should move before they ruin us. Theres plenty of overtaxed corrupt socialist regimes to choose from, but only one place that was created to respect individual liberty. You have most of Europe to choose from or just go north to Canada.
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Old 03-16-2012, 06:34 PM
 
Location: In a house
5,227 posts, read 4,887,164 times
Reputation: 2475
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
To Tin Knocker, who would like to be able to get a lump sum payment of all his contributions from Social Security immediately upon retirement: While that might work well for you, if you are disciplined and would invest the money, or if you have other significant sources of income, it would be a disaster as public policy. Can you imagine the whining and hand-wringing after many people have blown the money and then are left with absolutely nothing in their old age? Then the pressure would be on the politicians to take care of these "unfortunates" and our entire society would be much the worse financially. Haven't you observed how many people absolutely cannot hold onto any money? They have a compulsion to spend it, as if they were 5-year-old children. I view this as a form of mental illness, but whether you agree with my view or not, it is a fact that many people are like this.

So what? Those same people will be broke the third day of the month & still be squandering their money. What you dont understand is the govt is not here to babysit. It cant do it & we cant afford to do it.
You miss my point anyway. My point is that YOUR money should be in an account with YOUR name on it and be accounted for. The reason I said one lump payment was to illustrate the concept that the money should be there. Theres no reason why MY SS dollars are paying my fathers benefits other than theft by Congress, or maybe more correctly Congress borrowing & never even trying to pay it back.
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