The Macedonia Debate...Let's hear your opinion... (poll, suspect, wisdom)

[lentzr]

Important Note: The Macedonians of today are not the descendants of Ancient Macedonia (Alexander the Great's People). Macedonians today are a slavic people.

[jtur88]

Originally Posted by Fred314X

Imagine what might've happened if the Skopje government had decided to call their new nation France.

Or if George Washington had called his "America".

However, from 1944 to 1946, there in fact was a Republic of Macedonia, with its capital at Skopje, which was incorporated in the new Yugoslavia in 1946. From '46 to '91, it was still correctly and official known as the Socialist Republic of Macedonia, within the federation of Yugoslavia. So there was ample time for the Greeks to make a fuss during those 47 years that the name Macedonia was being firmly established as a precedent.

[harrycrat]

The term Macedonia is a cornerstone of greek mythological nationalism...

Like the term "Aryan" for German nazis...Imagine if Soviet Union used the term "Aryan" for a territory...

Nazis would go (even more ) nuts...

[jtur88]

Originally Posted by harrymiafl

The term Macedonia is a cornerstone of greek mythological nationalism...

Like the term "Aryan" for German nazis...Imagine if Soviet Union used the term "Aryan" for a territory...

Nazis would go (even more ) nuts...

"Iran", interestingly enough, comes directly from the word for "Land of the Aryans". The name "Persia" was changed to "Iran" about ten years after Hitler published "Mein Kampf".

[harrycrat]

Some Shahists in exile use a symbol similar to the swastika,which is...ancient greek -phoenician-whatever symbol...
Shah run...nazi-style ceremonies,with torch parades etc to celebrate the ancient Persians,King Midas,Cyrus,Darius etc..However ,the islamist plague won...

No modern nation in the Balkans is descendant of ancient nations...

They are all mixed heavily & their true history begins with the decline of the Ottoman Empire...

Unfortunately,Macs entered the asylum that Greeks created & now they run "Alexander " movie-type political messages on tv...

[petrovski]

Originally Posted by lentzr

Important Note: The Macedonians of today are not the descendants of Ancient Macedonia (Alexander the Great's People). Macedonians today are a slavic people.

This is totally incorrect.

Macedonians belong to the Slavic group - it's not a dobut. What is the problem is that Greece has introduced it's nation being the most ancient and oldest in Europe and Balkans.

Here's the deal - nobody in the Balkan has pure genes - not even the Greeks - whose territory during the Ottoman period, as well as the rest of the Balkans has suffered immigration fromo Asia and Africa as well.

Please read carefully the following text:

Goran's blog: Hla genes in Macedonians and the sub-Suharan origin of the Greeks

I agree not totally but still agree with harrymiafl. When slavs arrived in the Balkans they did not expell the ancient population - they mixed up in time. Slavs even settled on south to Athens very close to Peloponesem but Greeks have never mentioned this fact anyway...

[harrycrat]

Please,no genetic junk studies...This bs is Mac mythological nationalism.

What's wrong in acceprting that Macs r Slavs & have 1400 years of history instead of 2400 ?

The ancient Macs were dispersed as far as ...Persia...

Those ancient people are gone... Dead.Extinct.

Modern Mac land was a desolate land for centuries...

All the villages there have a certain time of creation,either during the Byzantine or the Ottoman Empire...

[Zamir]

I heard every coment posible, on Gr., Mac., subject.
Yet nobody mentioned incy wincy fact that, Greek Macedonians are
forbiden to teach their children the mother tong of their nation.
So, how is it posible for Mac., to be against as you said, Skopje.
Only Greeks are in disagreament. Lets just concentrate on human right, and get acquainted with history of prosecuted Macedonians.
It simes Petrovski had opened my eyes somewhat.
Indiginous Canadians as well had dificult time with the Europian new
commers, and for that matter indiginous Americans.
But today I hear they have schools for their new generation.
Why is that forbiden in Greece? and Bulgaria and Albania?
Is it because those countrys are inviders of Macedonian land , thus
the new comers desided to forbid indiginous mac., to remember who they are? thus the reason for unfriendlynes?
Denial for Mac's., existance? If Macedonian history exists, then should Macedonians as well. Simple as that. Historians did not invent
Macedonians, its Macedonians who invented history.
I think they have soul right to call their republic by their oficial name.
Republic of Macedonia.

[Zamir]

Originally Posted by petrovski

Hi huys - you are correct about the souls of the Balkan people. Our parole is always hate your neighbour (if he's different ethnic group than you) unfortunatelly it reimans for several centirues.

I will try to explain a little bit for you - hope you'll have time to read it.

The Macedonian problem on the Balkans is not only between Macedonian & Greeks. It dates back from the period of late 19-th and beginning of the 20th century.

Macedonia was then a Ottoman provice with a total area of approx. 69,000 sq km. All of this are included today in Republic of Macedonia, Greek (Aegean) Macedonia, Buglarian (Pirin) Macedonia and small areas in Albania.

No matter what was the christian population of Macedonia at that time (have in mind that this population wanted an independent country of their own since late 19th century - will continue for this in the next paragraph).... - the Bulgarians refered to it as Bulgarian, Greeks as Greek and Serbs as Serbian. This was why almost all the cities and village had Bulgarian/Greek/Serbian school and churchers all over.

The need of independent state or an autonomous region within the borders of the Ottoman empire, lead for the foundation of IMRO - Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization, which was founded in 1893 in Solun/Salonica/Thessalonika by local Macedonians. It was not far as the Bulgarians planted their political trees here to ruin it - which is why after the WW1 it split on two wings: one remained it first role - while the other became PRO-Bulgarian.

The Balkan wars have started 1911-1913 ... All of these countries who wanted Macedonia for their own - now all an ALLY against Turkey. Before the end the the first Balkan war, the Serbs and Greeks messed up the Buglarians who have lost most of Macedonia which led for an additional Second Balkan War between Greece & Serbia and Bulgaria as opponent - again for Macedonia (BG looses this war, and keeps the smallest part of Macedonia).

The First World War: Bulgarians have attacked the Seerbian part of Macedonia which was called Southern Serbia. Again because they wanted Macedonia so much... that is the main reason that lead for the Macedonian Front 1916-1918.

Between the 2 world wars for all the macedonians was the worst in their history. Neither the 5 centirues Ottoman rule could be ever compared to this. Macedonians were forced away to leave their native settlements from Northern Greece (most of them today live in Bulgaria, Australia USA, Canada, Poland & Czech Republic). Macedonians in all part of divided Macedonia instead of their -ov/-ski surnames got the new ones (Serbian) -ic, the remain in Greece - Greek -oulos/-idis, -Buglarian removed just the -ski becase -ov is the only surname form in Bulgaria. Forced to speak Serbian/Greek/Bulgarian instead of their mother language, Greeks were No.1 for this - who has spoken Macedonian - drink Ricinus.

The second worl was - again Serbians defeated by the Bulgarians in the Vardar part ( which is todays R. Macedonia) - same schools on Bulgarian, surnames different. E.G. my grandfather before the World was Petrovich, then became Petrov while orrginally my grandfather during Ottoman rule was Petrovski.
--------------------------
The problem with the name Macedonia with Greece is nothing else than because of political reasons, Greece is afraid that should take back land/properties of Macedonians or their successors - and people that own old document which is proove for an land ownership are in large numbers especually here in Republic of Macedonia today. That is the reason that Greece cannot accept a country with a name Macedonia, nation Macedonian, language Macedonian and especially ethnic Macedonian minority in northern Greece and continues to block the EU and NATO integration of Republic of Macedonia.

What is interesting to be noted is that Greece before 1991 had no problem with the name Macedonia-for my country.

Just friendly observation.
Greece had no previous problem because the republic of Macedonia
was under Yugoslav rule and subject to scrutiny.
Free Macedonians cause problem. They can talk. Why do you think
Greece is in financial trable. Its not cheep to chaing the history of
Balkan and specialy Macedonian history. Open any book, even Biblia
and you will find, Greece this and Greeks that.
There are more Greek mentions in new printed Biblias then any time
before. That is not right. Greeks deny Macedonians because they are
afraid from the truth. The world should open their eyes to it, but
money makes people in power blind.

[Zamir]

Originally Posted by harrymiafl

Please,no genetic junk studies...This bs is Mac mythological nationalism.

What's wrong in acceprting that Macs r Slavs & have 1400 years of history instead of 2400 ?

The ancient Macs were dispersed as far as ...Persia...

Those ancient people are gone... Dead.Extinct.

Modern Mac land was a desolate land for centuries...

All the villages there have a certain time of creation,either during the Byzantine or the Ottoman Empire...

Yes, you are right. Old people die. and next generation is never born.
Since Alexanders death, Macedonians stoped having sex.
And the land was empty until Byzantians suddenly jumped out from shadows. I understand your Greek logic.
Only Greeks are ancient and wordy of mentioning.
Sometimes I am amazed by some openions behaind which some
people hide. What are you afraid from. Truth?
My apology for being so blunt.
But I am not spending bilions to chaing history of ancient Macedonians,
and deny the existance of Macedonian descendants to this day.
With respect to your right of openion.