Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The hyperbole in this thread is amazing. People are not going through medical bankruptcy because they were cheap and didn't want to get coverage while simultaneously going to the Mayo clinic for a cold and getting stuck with a high non-adjusted bill. To suggest that is the case IS absurd. People are going to the poor house because the insurance is expensive, doesn't cover jack and is a for-profit architecture designed to look for ways to deny you coverage in every single turn as a means of substantiating its own bottom line. That's the american health care system in a nutshell. Those who derive above median livelihoods out of the system will defend their rent seeking to the core, but it doesn't mitigate the facts that there are people going broke in this country over what other countries have deemed a "utility" over half a century ago, like fire, police and electricity. That's the real debate in this country.
Furthermore, quality and access doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. The world of the elites can still have their gold plated MRIs at a premium, while affording the general population a nominal care system that's designed to provide modern care for all. The problem with that premise is that it quite literally cuts into the margin of profits of the insurance companies that make a living out of commoditizing life and disease in this country. That's it. I ask a teacher's union what they think about education cuts and they'd probably make an argument as to how it's the single piece that's going to destroy the country. Is it because that is so? No, it just means it affects their livelihood. Same thing with healthcare.
So, the system is great if you can afford it, and the crux of the debate is that you'll be more likely to morally adjudicate others inability to afford it than concede you're better off than your neighbor, at the very expense of your neighbor mind you. That's actually quite American in behavior.
A co-worker of mine said it best when we were having a debate on socio-economics and our thoughts on the american rat race. He said "No really, America is a GREAT country....as long as you got money." The simplicity of that statement really bordered on the redundant. But it hit home: that "F.U. I got mine" is truly truly truly an american social cornerstone. Individualism is but a cop out for it.
The hyperbole in this thread is amazing. People are not going through medical bankruptcy because they were cheap and didn't want to get coverage while simultaneously going to the Mayo clinic for a cold and getting stuck with a high non-adjusted bill. To suggest that is the case IS absurd. People are going to the poor house because the insurance is expensive, doesn't cover jack and is a for-profit architecture designed to look for ways to deny you coverage in every single turn as a means of substantiating its own bottom line. That's the american health care system in a nutshell. Those who derive above median livelihoods out of the system will defend their rent seeking to the core, but it doesn't mitigate the facts that there are people going broke in this country over what other countries have deemed a "utility" over half a century ago, like fire, police and electricity. That's the real debate in this country.
Furthermore, quality and access doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. The world of the elites can still have their gold plated MRIs at a premium, while affording the general population a nominal care system that's designed to provide modern care for all. The problem with that premise is that it quite literally cuts into the margin of profits of the insurance companies that make a living out of commoditizing life and disease in this country. That's it. I ask a teacher's union what they think about education cuts and they'd probably make an argument as to how it's the single piece that's going to destroy the country. Is it because that is so? No, it just means it affects their livelihood. Same thing with healthcare.
So, the system is great if you can afford it, and the crux of the debate is that you'll be more likely to morally adjudicate others inability to afford it than concede you're better off than your neighbor, at the very expense of your neighbor mind you. That's actually quite American in behavior.
A co-worker of mine said it best when we were having a debate on socio-economics and our thoughts on the american rat race. He said "No really, America is a GREAT country....as long as you got money." The simplicity of that statement really bordered on the redundant. But it hit home: that "F.U. I got mine" is truly truly truly an american social cornerstone. Individualism is but a cop out for it.
Try interjecting some reality into your post.
The whole "Our Healthcare System Is Destroying Us" mantra is political hype.
The hyperbole in this thread is amazing. People are not going through medical bankruptcy because they were cheap and didn't want to get coverage while simultaneously going to the Mayo clinic for a cold and getting stuck with a high non-adjusted bill. To suggest that is the case IS absurd. People are going to the poor house because the insurance is expensive, doesn't cover jack and is a for-profit architecture designed to look for ways to deny you coverage in every single turn as a means of substantiating its own bottom line. That's the american health care system in a nutshell. Those who derive above median livelihoods out of the system will defend their rent seeking to the core, but it doesn't mitigate the facts that there are people going broke in this country over what other countries have deemed a "utility" over half a century ago, like fire, police and electricity. That's the real debate in this country.
Furthermore, quality and access doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. The world of the elites can still have their gold plated MRIs at a premium, while affording the general population a nominal care system that's designed to provide modern care for all. The problem with that premise is that it quite literally cuts into the margin of profits of the insurance companies that make a living out of commoditizing life and disease in this country. That's it. I ask a teacher's union what they think about education cuts and they'd probably make an argument as to how it's the single piece that's going to destroy the country. Is it because that is so? No, it just means it affects their livelihood. Same thing with healthcare.
So, the system is great if you can afford it, and the crux of the debate is that you'll be more likely to morally adjudicate others inability to afford it than concede you're better off than your neighbor, at the very expense of your neighbor mind you. That's actually quite American in behavior.
A co-worker of mine said it best when we were having a debate on socio-economics and our thoughts on the american rat race. He said "No really, America is a GREAT country....as long as you got money." The simplicity of that statement really bordered on the redundant. But it hit home: that "F.U. I got mine" is truly truly truly an american social cornerstone. Individualism is but a cop out for it.
GREAT post!! I guess the rep feature on here is worth something. Very rare to have more rep points than posts.
Anyone who doesn't think that our HC system in this country is broken are just flat out delusional. (or partisan hacks)
If more Americans were willing to do that, our cost of health care would go down.
Most Americans are perfectly willing to do that, and would jump at the opportunity to do so. But doctors are not. Doctors have a morbid fear of litigation and escalating liability insurance rates, and few will write the most simple of prescriptions without a battery of lab tests to support their diagnosis.
I would be delighted to go to a doctor who had a sign on the wall that said "I charge $20 for an office call, I diagnose by the seat of my pants, I'll refer you to a specialist if I think you need one, and I have no malpractice insurance and a 5-year old Volvo and at 5 oclock, I go home and watch TV with my family."
Most Americans are perfectly willing to do that, and would jump at the opportunity to do so. But doctors are not. Doctors have a morbid fear of litigation and escalating liability insurance rates, and few will write the most simple of prescriptions without a battery of lab tests to support their diagnosis.
I would be delighted to go to a doctor who had a sign on the wall that said "I charge $20 for an office call, I diagnose by the seat of my pants, I'll refer you to a specialist if I think you need one, and I have no malpractice insurance and a 5-year old Volvo and at 5 oclock, I go home and watch TV with my family."
Of course, if you were smart enough to look in the Yellow Pages, you could simply find an Urgent Care Clinic that is staffed by either PAs or Residents. You know, a clinic that charges $45 for an office visit, during which they can easily and correctly diagnose simple maladies like strep throat and/or inner ear infections.
Then - egads! - you could get a generic prescription for $4.
Out the door for $49, plus tax.
But apparently that's the kind of thing that's reserved for us geniuses.
But apparently that's the kind of thing that's reserved for us geniuses.
No, it's reserved for people who live in a big enough city that there is enough potential business for a physician to be willing to establish and staff such a facility and can do so at a profit.
Meanwhile, please keep on regaliing us with your wonderful anecdotal stories of single individuals who have the good luck to live in circumstances in which some of the benefits of civilization are sometimes presented to them. As we all know from these forums, anecdotal accounts can always be counted upon to provide absolute and irrefutable proof of universal constants. It is so amusing. Your insistence that intelligence is reserved only for those who who believe what you have been falsely led to believe is absolutely hilarious.
No, it's reserved for people who live in a big enough city that there is enough potential business for a physician to be willing to establish and staff such a facility and can do so at a profit.
Meanwhile, please keep on regaliing us with your wonderful anecdotal stories of single individuals who have the good luck to live in circumstances in which some of the benefits of civilization are sometimes presented to them. As we all know from these forums, anecdotal accounts can always be counted upon to provide absolute and irrefutable proof of universal constants. It is so amusing. Your insistence that intelligence is reserved only for those who who believe what you have been falsely led to believe is absolutely hilarious.
Yes, I'll continue talking about things that actually - factually - do happen. You know, reality. I'll continue to speak of factual reality, such as the fact that hospitals often give at least 85% write-downs on their bills. I'll continue to speak of the factual reality of large grocery stores and Target stores having Urgent Care Clinics where a person can pay $45 to go in, see a Resident or Physicians Assistant, get a diagnosis, then go across the aisle and pay $4 for a generic prescription.
Meanwhile, you and your ilk are more than welcome to continue to claim such nonsense as abortions costing $350 and there being 50-60 million Americans without healthcare.
The fact that you're fixated on left-wing hyperbole & BS, and completely ignore reality, is not my fault or my problem.
No, it's reserved for people who live in a big enough city that there is enough potential business for a physician to be willing to establish and staff such a facility and can do so at a profit.
Meanwhile, please keep on regaliing us with your wonderful anecdotal stories of single individuals who have the good luck to live in circumstances in which some of the benefits of civilization are sometimes presented to them. As we all know from these forums, anecdotal accounts can always be counted upon to provide absolute and irrefutable proof of universal constants. It is so amusing. Your insistence that intelligence is reserved only for those who who believe what you have been falsely led to believe is absolutely hilarious.
But here's the deal: That is NOT true in the United States!
Health care IS available!
Do you realize that no hospital can turn anybody away from emergency treatment, regardless of whether or not they can pay? That's why so many homeless people hang out in ERs every night.
The problem is that people with colds think they're entitled to walk into The Mayo Clinic and immediately be seen by a specialist, with no cost to themselves. And that's just absurd.
Nobody thinks or demands that and that's is not the case even with super socialistic systems owned by governments. There are a variety of illnesses that require continuous monitoring and follow ups like chronic diseases. Also surgical procedures that are not immediately life threatening, but need to be taken care of. Healthcare is complicated and cannot be summed up in two phrases. And since people get care at hospitals without insurance anyway, why not legalize and regulate healthcare for all? We already pay much of that. Like with illegal immigration, why not fix it instead of hiding our heads in sand?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
