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Come on Joey, who are you kidding here? Look no further than this forum, or to people in general who spit out the words "personal responsibility" on a regular basis. Those words aren't uttered as words of support to encourage people, or to help people get out of their particular situations, or do you believe otherwise?
But it is meant to encourage people - to make good choices (my 3 y.o. is aware of the difference between good and bad choices) and deal with the consequences of making bad ones in a responsible way - clean up your mess, don't make it again, etc.
Too many want to wallow in the results of a bad choice and then make them over and over again.
I work with teens who do expect the government to take care of them and their children. Right now I have at least 15 who are pregnant or have already delivered. Two of them are on their second child. None is self-supporting. They don't hesitate to go to the doctor, as all their medical bills are covered. They have the latest cell phones and nice clothes, because all their necessities are covered by social programs. (Now I hear that there will soon be a program to cover their wireless needs.)
It is galling to me that I cannot afford the co-pays and deductibles for our medical insurance or our dental care. Those who come from families where either no one is working, or where they have managed to hide their income and still receive government payments are living fat on MY money that I need for my own bills. I brought home $29K last year, and our medical bills were over $4K of that. We are still paying for three emergency room visits and an emergency root canal for our children. We did not have the money for the cancer biopsy or the dental implants for my spouse and me, so they went undone. There is no point in having treatment if we can't pay for it. But in good conscience, we cannot deprive our children of needed care, so we continue to go into debt for their sake.
One of our children is scheduled to have surgery next week. I expect that we will be paying for it for at least 3 years. And there is still no money for dental care, despite three new broken teeth. But I am required to pay for medical care, housing, food, and day care for those who have no concept of self-sufficiency.
I work with teens who do expect the government to take care of them and their children. Right now I have at least 15 who are pregnant or have already delivered. Two of them are on their second child. None is self-supporting. They don't hesitate to go to the doctor, as all their medical bills are covered. They have the latest cell phones and nice clothes, because all their necessities are covered by social programs. (Now I hear that there will soon be a program to cover their wireless needs.)
It is galling to me that I cannot afford the co-pays and deductibles for our medical insurance or our dental care. Those who come from families where either no one is working, or where they have managed to hide their income and still receive government payments are living fat on MY money that I need for my own bills. I brought home $29K last year, and our medical bills were over $4K of that. We are still paying for three emergency room visits and an emergency root canal for our children. We did not have the money for the cancer biopsy or the dental implants for my spouse and me, so they went undone. There is no point in having treatment if we can't pay for it. But in good conscience, we cannot deprive our children of needed care, so we continue to go into debt for their sake.
One of our children is scheduled to have surgery next week. I expect that we will be paying for it for at least 3 years. And there is still no money for dental care, despite three new broken teeth. But I am required to pay for medical care, housing, food, and day care for those who have no concept of self-sufficiency.
*This* is a case for compassion and society's generousity. The examples cited at the beginning of the reply - children having more and more children while bilking the taxpayer - are not.
I really do agree with you Shizzles. I work with lots of parents who get food stamps and 4C (reduced day care assistance).....my own daughter included. If they had to pay full day care and for all their food, they wouldn't clear enough money each week to pay for gas, much less rent. They aren't deadbeats and really don't like having to re-apply every few months to try to get some help. They simply have no choice. They are doing the best with what they have.
It is easy to be a snob when your parents have put you through college, paid for all your expenses and probably even helped you put a down payment on a house. Not everyone has that luxury.
Here's the odd thing about the whole deal.....if you run across hard times.....that first group will help you without judgment. The second group will whine and cry like the spoiled kids they always were.
"Blessed be the poor..........." for they can find joy in the giving.
My response speaks to your comments here as well as the OP.
The reason why Americans love to denigrate the poor is because the very existence of poverty in the land of plenty is a paradox that challenges cherished notions of American exceptionalism.
Americans by and large believe that the United States is exceptional, meaning that this nation is different among all other nations, past or present.
But the great wealth disparity in the land of plenty is a contradiction, and this shows that the United States is not much different from other nations.
In the end it's a psychological problem in the American mind. Similarly, Americans of the past hated African Americans (some still do) because the caste system that placed them into second class citizenship contradicted American ideals of social equality and individual freedom for everyone. It's the reason why Gunnar Myrdal came over here and wrote in his book that the race problem in America was a problem that existed in the mind of whites. Maybe not the best example, but I think there are parallels today with the working poor.
This is another great misconception among denigraters of the poor. The poor are not poor because they are lazy, they are poor because they didn't take advantage of opportunities they had before they became destitute (some, however, came from poverty and in this it cycles from generation to generation because poor families have more children because kids will become, eventually, a laborer and a source of income for the family).
Consequently, the poor are among us working. They make our lattes, they put cheese on our burgers, they pick up the fine stuff that we throw away and leave at the curb twice each week, they help our fighter jets take off from air craft carriers and they hunt out terrorists in foreign lands, they babysit our children, they teach our children, etc., etc.
The problem is, these professions don't pay very well. But poor people, for the most part, work.
But it is meant to encourage people - to make good choices (my 3 y.o. is aware of the difference between good and bad choices) and deal with the consequences of making bad ones in a responsible way - clean up your mess, don't make it again, etc.
Too many want to wallow in the results of a bad choice and then make them over and over again.
...but we're not talking about you being a good parent to your 3 year old child. That is your job, as a parent....to encourage, nurture and lead by example. Unfortunately, many people were not lucky enough to be brought up by good, stable parents. It is too late to be chastising such people as if they were children or somehow beneath you, by throwing pointless buzzwords at them and blaming them for all their failings. That is not the mark of a good society and unless this mindset changes, more and more people will slip through the cracks and the rich/poor divide will continue to grow and in turn, crime will become more of a problem.
Come on Joey, who are you kidding here? Look no further than this forum, or to people in general who spit out the words "personal responsibility" on a regular basis. Those words aren't uttered as words of support to encourage people, or to help people get out of their particular situations, or do you believe otherwise?
I may have missed an extremist comment or 2, but mostly what I see here at "worst" are people who hate those who use welfare as a crutch and/or scam the system - and they are NOT saying that is ALL poor people. I don't see why this is so hard for some of you to get. I also don't exactly see how touting the value of personal responsibility, esp re. a topic where many (but not all) fail to exercise it, is a bad thing...and like I and others have been saying, have a HUGE problem w/those such as I described above. We also have a huge problem those who bury their head in the sand and pretend such people don't exist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge
I work with teens who do expect the government to take care of them and their children. Right now I have at least 15 who are pregnant or have already delivered. Two of them are on their second child. None is self-supporting. They don't hesitate to go to the doctor, as all their medical bills are covered. They have the latest cell phones and nice clothes, because all their necessities are covered by social programs. (Now I hear that there will soon be a program to cover their wireless needs.)
But according to a lot of people here, if you have a problem w/that, you're "demonizing the poor."
Correction: many but not all. some don't have the mental ability to go to college, some may be able to gain a skillset through vocational training, some are disabled etc.
this is just a reality in an imperfect society and imperfect world.
That is why we need to make sure everyone can have shelter and food.
That is why we need to make sure everyone can have shelter and food.
We tried that in 1621 and it failed and killed off half the population.
As Governor of the colony William Bradford wrote. "all profits & benefits that are got by trade, working, fishing, or any other means" were to be placed in the common stock of the colony, and that, "all such persons as are of this colony, are to have their meat, drink, apparel, and all provisions out of the common stock." A person was to put into the common stock all he could, and take out only what he needed.
Bradford writes that "young men that are most able and fit for labor and service" complained about being forced to "spend their time and strength to work for other men's wives and children." Also, "the strong, or man of parts, had no more in division of victuals and clothes, than he that was weak." So the young and strong refused to work and the total amount of food produced was never adequate. The Great Thanksgiving Hoax - Richard J. Maybury - Mises Institute
You know what they say about those who refuse to learn from history don't you?
Reading all these comments reiterates the reason(s) I never HAD children. Not all rich people spoil their children. But the ones that do, those children have NO idea what it is to work for something. To really have the satisfaction of earning things for themselves. Then later in life end up in trouble because they're bored or feel unloved. Most go unnoticed due to monetary status. Not all of course. Some do great things for our society. And like everything else the ideas behind those great things are forgotten.
Not all poor people neglect their children. But the ones that do, only had them to spoil themselves. With money they didn't earn. So then those children have NO idea what it is to work for something. To really have the satisfaction of earning things for themselves. Then later in life end up in trouble because they're bored or feel unloved. Most go unnoticed because of monetary status. Not all of course. Some do great things for our society. And like everything else the ideas behind those great things are forgotten.
This is called "breaking the chain".
So in between all this we have the working class. The ones who get up everyday out of a sense of responsibility and respect. Doing the best they can with what they have to keep an economy afloat. Paid by the rich business owner with wages they see fit to pay. Most of these wages are inappropriate. Causing angst among the working class who can't afford the proper health care to take care of themselves. What, because someone digs a ditch or flips a burger loses them the right to have proper health care? So much for responsibility and respect for the idea of paying your way. If that is not a mixed signal then I must be as crazy as Charles Manson.
I was raised in a single parent home. My Mother. From day one I was taught responsibility and respect. I bought my first stereo at the age of nine. With money I EARNED. Man, that felt good. I'll never forget that feeling. Now, I (we) are all stuck in the middle waiting for someone to "break the chain".
A healthy life is a happy life. Things aren't very healthy.
This is a crazy world. Why populate it anymore?
If we can't teach and learn things as simple as respect and responsibility, situations will simply get worse.We will destroy ourselves. Perhaps that is just what the Earth needs. Cause we're not doing Her any justice.
When you accurately comprehend and respond to what's being said here in a rational way, I'll reply further. Until then, your word twistings and other assorted dribblings are hardly worth addressing any more.
heheh. It's so obvious you replied in this manner because you didn't want to address what drains the taxpayer besides just poor or disabled.
I find you more than ridiculous but your posts dishonest. You seem to have an axe to grind against the poor.
you NEVER addressed the other aspects of what drains the economy and taxpayer such as those who don't take care of themselves such as smokers or alchoholics, the obese, the prison systems etc. it costs a middle class wage to keep every prisoner in the system per year. that is way more than any welfare or disabled recipient would receive. even most people on some welfare are working.
Your tone reminds me a lot of my stepfather who was always railing against the poor (even though he was one but he fancied himself an elitist) or suspicious of anyone receiving any type of assistance.
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