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Old 04-14-2010, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Florida
3,359 posts, read 5,737,780 times
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That's an easy one...genetic traits don't effect behavior...customs or enviornment do...

you could raise a euro-american and a afro-american up in china from age 3 and they would both totally be Chinesse in culture and language and customs...

That's an easy one...

 
Old 04-14-2010, 08:53 PM
 
487 posts, read 501,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Time and Space View Post
That's an easy one...genetic traits don't effect behavior.
Really? Oh I suppose the birds chirp not because of their genes, but because they were socialized to do so.
 
Old 04-14-2010, 09:07 PM
 
Location: Florida
3,359 posts, read 5,737,780 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dusk99 View Post
Really? Oh I suppose the birds chirp not because of their genes, but because they were socialized to do so.
Humans and birds are wired differently...

This is to easy...

What language would you speak if no one taught you?
Do you have some naturally hardwired language you would just start speaking by age 5? if so...which language?....
 
Old 04-14-2010, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Chicago
3,255 posts, read 5,025,316 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Time and Space View Post
That's an easy one...genetic traits don't effect behavior...customs or enviornment do...

you could raise a euro-american and a afro-american up in china from age 3 and they would both totally be Chinesse in culture and language and customs...

That's an easy one...
This is what I always say.

Take a kid of Chinese decent and drop him off with an amazonian tribe and he'll grow up just like them.
 
Old 04-14-2010, 09:37 PM
 
487 posts, read 501,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Time and Space View Post
Humans and birds are wired differently...

This is to easy...

What language would you speak if no one taught you?
Do you have some naturally hardwired language you would just start speaking by age 5? if so...which language?....
I think its obvious that its more complex for humans than other animals. What I'm saying is that its a combination of both genes and socialization/culture, to say genes play no effect at all is idiotic. Everything that we are is the manifestation of our genetics. Geniuses have a high IQ because of their genes. I believe some amount of credence can be given to genes for the formation of languages. If you look around the world you'll see that regions with similar genetic sub-groups ("races" if you want to call it that) have developed similar langauges. Although this can also be attributable to the fact that they developed in close proximity, I also think its fair to say that "culture" is a reflection of the genes of the people who created it.

You are denying the role of genetics because it doesn't fit into your fantasy egalitarian worldview where "we are all equal and we are all the same underneath". Equality does not exist in nature, its inequality which drives evolution. Its ironic that typically the people who are atheistic evolutionists deny this essential fact when it applies to humans. Their egalitarianism is a Christian idea, not a scientific one.
 
Old 04-14-2010, 10:16 PM
 
Location: Florida
3,359 posts, read 5,737,780 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dusk99 View Post
I think its obvious that its more complex for humans than other animals. What I'm saying is that its a combination of both genes and socialization/culture, to say genes play no effect at all is idiotic. Everything that we are is the manifestation of our genetics. Geniuses have a high IQ because of their genes. I believe some amount of credence can be given to genes for the formation of languages. If you look around the world you'll see that regions with similar genetic sub-groups ("races" if you want to call it that) have developed similar langauges. Although this can also be attributable to the fact that they developed in close proximity, I also think its fair to say that "culture" is a reflection of the genes of the people who created it.

You are denying the role of genetics because it doesn't fit into your fantasy egalitarian worldview where "we are all equal and we are all the same underneath". Equality does not exist in nature, its inequality which drives evolution. Its ironic that typically the people who are atheistic evolutionists deny this essential fact when it applies to humans. Their egalitarianism is a Christian idea, not a scientific one.
Genes don't play a role in nothing accept what disease you may inherit...

I've been around to many people, cultures, and situations to know that to be fact...

Genes play a role in nothing after your born...but your enviornment, religion, and culture and parents play heavy roles in how you see the world around you and or how you percieve youself...

As far as 'being equal'...I don't know what that means...you must be confusing me with someone else....

As far as people having value...in terms of humanity...yes...I don't value no one human being above or more than another based on physical traits...

And as far as 'geniuses', the ones that get recognized come from enviornments and condtions that are stable enough to allow them to proper...

There are plenty of geniuses born in rice paddies, who's parents can't afford to send them to Oxford University....there are plenty of genious, who are born in famon...and who starve to death before the age of 10...

There are geniouses born everyday who will never get to develop thier minds do to being born in war torn areas, or households that are non conducive to learning...

Last edited by Time and Space; 04-14-2010 at 10:24 PM..
 
Old 04-23-2010, 07:00 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,411 posts, read 14,443,654 times
Reputation: 8667
Quote:
Originally Posted by Time and Space View Post
That's an easy one...genetic traits don't effect behavior...customs or enviornment do...

you could raise a euro-american and a afro-american up in china from age 3 and they would both totally be Chinesse in culture and language and customs...

That's an easy one...
There have been cases of identical twins, separated at birth and given to very different families and still having similar tastes and characteristics when reunited. There were even cases of twins born to lawbreakers and separated and given to good, moral, families and the twins each were lawbreakers.

I think it is a combination of both, nature and nurture, and we are not sure where the dividing line is.

Who knows, someday they/we may find that several generations of existing in the same culture will somehow influence the genes so their offspring adapt better to that culture. Maybe nurture and nature feed into each other, over generations.

There were studies of rats going through a maze and once the parents learned it the subsequent generations did the maze faster and their next generation, faster yet. Then they got blood from these 'fast' rats and transfused it into rats who never did the maze and THEY did the maze faster.

Maybe when we hear that the genes of a population regress back to the norm (that is geniuses will eventually produce kids with normal IQ's down the line) we are really saying that the person with a genius IQ is living in a society of and built for normal people and there is an innate 'something' that imprints on the genes that will tend to produce offspring which will adapt better to the 'normal' environment.

We don't know all there is to know about 'us', and that's fascinating.

The fact is that our differences, on the whole, are not so very different and there is no reason why we cannot get along. At some point our existence on the planet may depend on it.

Last edited by goldengrain; 04-23-2010 at 08:02 AM..
 
Old 04-23-2010, 07:17 AM
 
Location: Way South of the Volvo Line
2,778 posts, read 6,552,200 times
Reputation: 2811
Quote:
Originally Posted by Time and Space View Post
That's an easy one...genetic traits don't effect behavior...customs or enviornment do...

you could raise a euro-american and a afro-american up in china from age 3 and they would both totally be Chinesse in culture and language and customs...

That's an easy one...
For the most part, but not totally. Shared physical features strenghten a person's kinship with the culture in question. Ask any kid growing up in a situation such as you describe, they will identify with the culture they were immersed into but there is always a feeling of being apart that can never be resolved.
 
Old 04-23-2010, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Florida
3,359 posts, read 5,737,780 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dusk99 View Post
Which "Africans" are you talking about? You're most likely referring to East African immigrants, and they comprise a different racial group then the African Americans who are mostly of West African heritage. For some reason white people think of "Africans" as encompassing one monolithic group of people. Africa is the most genetically diverse continent on the planet.
Why do you think Europeans think that way? Is it because their dumb or lack education?
 
Old 04-24-2010, 08:04 AM
 
1,503 posts, read 736,098 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Time and Space View Post
Why do you think Europeans think that way? Is it because their[sic] dumb or lack education?
Some apparently failed English.
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