Public Education - Pro and Con (Reagan, racist, ideology, cost)
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There might be quite a free-for-all on this one. The quality of public education varies all over the map, depending on the city, the school, and even the teacher within a given school. I know a little bit about this first-hand, having spent 34 years in the public schools of Pasadena, California, where I experienced both extremes.
Recently I encountered the most vicious criticism of public education on The Economic Populist | Speak Your Mind 2 Cents at a Time, where one writer spoke of "the stench permeating the environment" where teachers work; he suggested that teachers are part of this stench. On this same site, I read wildly exaggerated versions of teachers' hours, benefits, and supposedly cushy retirement.
I want to offer two counter-examples here. In Pasadena there is a combination high school/middle school (grades 6-12) where several Ph.D's who work at JPL nearby have chosen to send all their children. I think this says a lot. Second example: Just yesterday, as part of a volunteer readers program, I read for 30 minutes to the most wonderfully courteous, well-behaved, and attentive 5th grade class you could hope to imagine. I will be back once a week, and I sure wish I could take the severe critics with me.
Last edited by Escort Rider; 04-21-2010 at 05:14 AM..
Reason: Correct spelling typo
The FFA (Free Fascists of America aka Republicans) despise public schools because the FFA's do not control what is taught. They want a completely conditioned population that will do anything business wants and never ask any questions. They would also want to charge for schooling to eliminate contaminating their perfect childern by having then in contact with the poor. In their narrow and selfish minds education is a privilege reserved for the 15% that can afford it. The rest of the population should remain ignorant, thoughtless and poor.
Needless to say I completely disagree. I think all education, including college, should only be done in public schools. This would result in a population with an open attitude toward the world because they were trained in logic and evaluating evidence and rejection of religious or political dogma. Public universities would also help undermine the class structure by encouraging association across class lines.
The FFA (Free Fascists of America aka Republicans) despise public schools because the FFA's do not control what is taught. They want a completely conditioned population that will do anything business wants and never ask any questions. They would also want to charge for schooling to eliminate contaminating their perfect childern by having then in contact with the poor. In their narrow and selfish minds education is a privilege reserved for the 15% that can afford it. The rest of the population should remain ignorant, thoughtless and poor.
Needless to say I completely disagree. I think all education, including college, should only be done in public schools. This would result in a population with an open attitude toward the world because they were trained in logic and evaluating evidence and rejection of religious or political dogma. Public universities would also help undermine the class structure by encouraging association across class lines.
But then how many of the LLDM (Love Leftist Dictators & Murderers aka Democrats) would actually take their precious kids out of the private schools and put them in the public schools??
Oh yeah, forgot that "Public" anything crusaders from the wealthy elite always exempt themselves. Wouldn't want them to actually LIVE their ideology now, would we???
[quote=GregW;13832419]The FFA (Free Fascists of America aka Republicans) despise public schools because the FFA's do not control what is taught. They want a completely conditioned population that will do anything business wants and never ask any questions. They would also want to charge for schooling to eliminate contaminating their perfect childern by having then in contact with the poor. In their narrow and selfish minds education is a privilege reserved for the 15% that can afford it. The rest of the population should remain ignorant, thoughtless and poor.
Needless to say I completely disagree. I think all education, including college, should only be done in public schools. This would result in a population with an open attitude toward the world because they were trained in logic and evaluating evidence and rejection of religious or political dogma. Public universities would also help undermine the class structure by encouraging association across class lines.
[/quote
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah Spew that Communist big goverment party line for the good of the people crap. I'm for reformation of the public school system. My kids go to a parochial school that costs $4000 dollars less than it costs to educate a kid at public school. Oh and on the State STAR test The aggregate of public state schools scored in the 50th percentile. While our local parochial school system score in the 75th percentile. So who has the best system. Lower cost higher performance. OH in our local Parochial High school 99% of all kids graduate with a 2.5 gpa or above and 99.5% go on to college. Local High school average 55% graduation and 35% college entrance. All the parents still subsidise taxes for these POS public schools. We get no credit for sending our kids to private schools. YOUR F'd up POS school system can't even graduate kids with all those millions of extra dollars.
The only POLITCAL INDOCTRINATION that is going on at schools is from Chairman Mao, Castro and Che Guevara loving American hating Liberal Communistic Democrats.
There might be quite a free-for-all on this one. The quality of public education varies all over the map, depending on the city, the school, and even the teacher within a given school. I know a little bit about this first-hand, having spent 34 years in the public schools of Pasadena, California, where I experienced both extremes.
Recently I encountered the most vicious criticism of public education on The Economic Populist | Speak Your Mind 2 Cents at a Time, where one writer spoke of "the stench permeating the environment" where teachers work; he suggested that teachers are part of this stench. On this same site, I read wildly exaggerated versions of teachers' hours, benefits, and supposedly cushy retirement.
I want to offer two counter-examples here. In Pasadena there is a combination high school/middle school (grades 6-12) where several Ph.D's who work at JPL nearby have chosen to send all their children. I think this says a lot. Second example: Just yesterday, as part of a volunteer readers program, I read for 30 minutes to the most wonderfully courteous, well-behaved, and attentive 5th grade class you could hope to imagine. I will be back once a week, and I sure wish I could take the severe critics with me.
One of the things that I am watching in my state is the teachers and parents at each other's throats. Since Reagan there has been a full steam ahead effort to dismantle the public schools and force them into charter schools.
I looked at the amount of money that was spent on testing (in state). The not for profit business that is raking in that money had a four year contract and I almost had a heart attack. I want to say the first year was something like 32 million dollars, then 31 million and 29 million the last year. By all means lets keep the testing company afloat---even though it has altered the landscape of the public education system to an unimaginable degree. Meanwhile, there is a 3 million dollar shortfall this year and pink slips are going out.
What was it called? The Crab Bucket Mentality. Yeah, man. Full force.
I got into a debate where someone said something about how teachers make more than a roofer. It is amazing.
I think all education, including college, should only be done in public schools. This would result in a population with an open attitude toward the world because they were trained in logic and evaluating evidence and rejection of religious or political dogma. Public universities would also help undermine the class structure by encouraging association across class lines.
All sounds great. Problem is, that's not what is being taught in public schools. I know, because I get the results of public education in my classrooms every semester. They are not being taught through a full 12 years of 'education' concepts that I was taught in fourth grade, or my grandfather was probably taught in first grade.
The kiddies are too busy being taught how to masturbate or get in touch with their sexuality to get any real education. Does it really take instruction these days to learn how to masturbate? Are we really that stupid? I'd gladly support public education if there were any education going on.
And you know something? The few home-schooled students that I’ve had come through my classes absolutely kicked ass on everyone else I’ve seen in 17 years. So, there you go. Anecdotal, but true. That wouldn't be the case if public schools were doing their job.
This is my reasoned gripe about the quality of education in a public school vs. the quality of education in a private school. Now, don't shoot the messenger, because I've never actually attended a private school, unless you consider college--by the definition I'm about to give, a private school.
Public schools are funded by a collective of all taxpayers. Private schools are funded by the "clients" of that school. There is no impetus for a public school student to excel...or even to perform. You rarely see a school fail to pass an underperforming student, even if he or she does not meet LOWERED standards. Education, particularly in a public school system, is self-directed--if one takes it upon oneself to learn something, that person will generally learn. There may be some that simply cannot learn, but we will pass over that for now. Many of your underperformers don't want to be in an educational setting to begin with. They have no drive to "do their best", nor any reason to.
In a private school setting, where you (or your parents) are PAYING specifically for the privilege of you learning something, there is more at stake. Money is being specifically earmarked and invested for your education, and for you to excel. Even here, the self-directed student tends to do better, because they are buying in to what is now EXPECTED of them.
This is my reasoned gripe about the quality of education in a public school vs. the quality of education in a private school. Now, don't shoot the messenger, because I've never actually attended a private school, unless you consider college--by the definition I'm about to give, a private school.
Public schools are funded by a collective of all taxpayers. Private schools are funded by the "clients" of that school. There is no impetus for a public school student to excel...or even to perform. You rarely see a school fail to pass an underperforming student, even if he or she does not meet LOWERED standards. Education, particularly in a public school system, is self-directed--if one takes it upon oneself to learn something, that person will generally learn. There may be some that simply cannot learn, but we will pass over that for now. Many of your underperformers don't want to be in an educational setting to begin with. They have no drive to "do their best", nor any reason to.
In a private school setting, where you (or your parents) are PAYING specifically for the privilege of you learning something, there is more at stake. Money is being specifically earmarked and invested for your education, and for you to excel. Even here, the self-directed student tends to do better, because they are buying in to what is now EXPECTED of them.
Basically its like anyhting else that you pay for and is failing. At a certain point you have every right to try6 buy a different system. If they are so good then why do they always try to stop vouchers and other alternatives? Because its been found that they work better and it the interest of those in public system not the kids.Its in many places become a disfunctional system based on politcs instead of the purpose of education.
Hey, you reminded me of a couple of things, there T.
We are still operating on a factory model system. So, all the fixes are like temporary patches to a system that should be revamped.
If we compare what constitutes high school in the US versus other countries, it is so vastly different.
In many countries, the 11th and 12th grade are completely separated from the rest of secondary school. There are different high school degrees. Your 11th and 12th grade courses are your first two years of college and then you transfer. Those grades are separated again, one is what we call vo-tech and you spend those two years learning a trade or the beginnings of a trade. One direction (in some areas) is IT and you are going to a university for that. One direction has law(and other degrees, but for example) and what we call our university and that is what you do. Often, you need to test into those colleges by the end of 10th grade. Which means that you better start bustin' your behind by the 8th grade. The grade that in the US that makes everyone want to break out the razor blades and lock themselves in bathrooms as we watch them morph. Did I say that? I meant transition and try out different personalities and...stuff.
When people cry out that they are so far ahead in Asia and Europe, well, it is a completely different system. You can't compare it. Here in the US you have to get a student loan to go to school at Ivy Tech to do what we used to do before-offer vo-tech.
Is this tracking? Maybe, but not like the US.Our history of tracking is clearly racist and based on class. There are countries that also have had a class based tracking system. In this instance, it is a system that everyone has known for so long that it is what you do.
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