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Old 05-16-2010, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
446 posts, read 693,129 times
Reputation: 450

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I can't believe you are at it again!! YOU are the most racist person I've ever met. You're looking for someone to blame in 2010!!! Look in the mirror if you've had a rough life, or look to your parents because they didn't teach you how to be proud of yourself.

I tell my children every day I love them.....I tell them they're pretty, beautiful, they look nice, that they did a great job on that term paper and most of all, I tell them I am proud of them!

And ya know what? They're proud of themselves as well1!

You want something more than de-segregated schools? Maybe we should just go back to NEIGHBORHOOD schools again, then maybe it'd work like you want it to. It would save the school system a lot of gas on busing! I don't think that's the answer, but perhaps it would make you happy? No...nothing would because you are bitter and I think you like it that way. It's sad to live your life like that.....I almost feel sorry for you.

There is no right answer for you except for the white people of, again, 2010, to bow down and apologize for the crap that happened over, OVER 200 years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!

Look in the mirror and see if you can find some responsibility in that vision because it's not the entire white population's fault that some children/adults (perhaps you) have no self esteem. It's their parents, period!

I don't know what you want but you won't get an apology outta me because I've done nothing to the black race, or any other race for that matter, to make them feel bad about themselves and I suspect that this is true for the majority of the white race. No, not all the white race....we have Supremacists and people who throw silly white robes over their body, but they don't represent 99% of us!

Self esteem and learning about your culture starts at home!!!!!!!!!

Get a life and move the hell on!

 
Old 05-16-2010, 12:46 PM
 
8,669 posts, read 6,344,426 times
Reputation: 3766
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheViking85 View Post
I'm not offended at all.

I just don't personally think it's a good way to go about it, to give some background, I'm also very skeptical of religious schools etc. as well.

I don't think segregating ultimately leads to less racism or bigotry, if anything it feeds it, and though I do understand your point (...to a point ) I think it will only breed more polarization and hatred.
Breed polirization and hatred in who.....whites? White supremacy is what breeds polirization and hatred. Right and wrong should be polarized. If integration means feeling insecure and being treated as "less than" by whites....then you can have your integration. However, blacks have CONSTANTLY been integrating with whites and whites constantly resist or move away from us. Then when devolope something on our own to promote ourselves.....we are the ones promoting polirization by such actions. No....whites just look for proxy rationalization to justify their ingrained racism.

For all those who say that I am racist, Sandy,.....well, I live in a majority white area and my kids go to majority white schools. This is where I choose to live. However, many whites are moving out of this community since we moved in and the schools white population is declining and its black and brown is increasing. All those who saying I am racist.....I bet you don't live in a black community or send your kids to predominately black schools.....so whose actions indicate that they are racist?
 
Old 05-16-2010, 01:10 PM
 
143 posts, read 480,299 times
Reputation: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheViking85 View Post



I think there's a big difference between teaching your kid that she's equal to anyone and sending her to a black only school. Again though, what I don't understand is the reason to feel good about oneself because of ones African features (previously you've merely referred to this as black pride), just as I don't understand pride based on European features, it doesn't make sense to me, my features and colours do not define who I am, other than that I'll just refer to my older posts.

What I've repeatedly debated, as in the thread name, is afrocentric schools. Which I think lead to segregation, not and polarization, instead of enlightenment and progress. I've also specifically stated that I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong if, with time, it becomes evident that it's a positive.
TheViking85, a short rundown on why African American children should have pride in their features:
skin color: in media, and unfortunately in the african american community the lighter the skin color the "prettier" you are.
nose: a slimmer, more eurocentric nose is considered pretty
hair: straight ( and more common now blonde hair) is what is pretty

If you were to poll white parents who adopted african american girls you would see that these 3 things are top of the list of body image problems for their children. This is ( from my experience) also in the black community except that people don't talk about it. There is so much of this out there that many young african american girls have these issues which their african american features. Why do you believe that it is wrong to instill in these young girls that those features, that they were born with, are beautiful?

Do you just not know how much of an issue this is in the african american female society? Do you not know that there are things called fade creams that claim to lighten the skin that are still big selling items today? Do you not know that the hair extension industry is a billion dollar a year industry almost exclusively to satisfy the need of african american women to appear to have straight hair?

It shouldn't make sense to you... it is probably your features or the features of your race that some many young girls think will make them better than what they already are.


[/quote] What I've repeatedly debated, as in the thread name, is afrocentric schools. Which I think lead to segregation, not and polarization, instead of enlightenment and progress. I've also specifically stated that I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong if, with time, it becomes evident that it's a positive.
[/quote]

What is your idea of an afrocentric school? Why do you think an african american child learning about their culture would cause segregation and polarization? Do you feel the same way about greek schools, korean schools? I had a Korean friend who was American born and her parents put her in Korean school she said it was the best decision after she was older and could see the benefit that it gave her. I have attended majority white schools as a child and majority white and HBCU ( Historically Black Colleges and Universities) as an adult and HBCU's only help to build up character, and self confidence.

From your posts it seems that you have no experience with this type of thing first hand so why are you so against it? What if enough people like you feel so strongly about this and get together to fight an afrocentric school from being built in your area, that would mean that children would be deprived and all you could say is if it becomes evident that this really would have been positive then I'll admit I'm wrong?

Last edited by mekia02; 05-16-2010 at 01:18 PM.. Reason: to add that "it seems" to the last paragraph
 
Old 05-16-2010, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
4,464 posts, read 9,638,897 times
Reputation: 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
The debate is indeed open to anyone. What I am saying is that you have a strong opinion without a strong foundation in understanding.
It's a strong opinion to say "If I'm proven wrong I'll be the first to admit it"? I'm debating a topic, which I wouldn't have if I had no opinion on it. I do have some relatively strong opinions regarding racism and bigotry, that's true, one of those opinions is that i think separation will lead to more conflict. And as stated before, you're making some very confident assumptions about my history and basis for understanding, and no, I might not have the best understanding of what it means to be black, which is why I asked at least twice why it's important to instill "black pride", but your assumptions about my grounds for understanding is just as wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
I would not assume that I could tell a women, who may have been conditioned to believe that women are intellectually inferior to men, that it makes no sense to refute that by inspiring confidence in the ability of women. You should not have such a staunch position about something you have not experienced…..ie….feeling inferior because of your race. Now, at women point in time women were not allowed suffrage and many were kept out of certain occupations based upon perceptions of men that the nature of a women rendered them unqualified. So what did that inspire? Women being put down inspired….THE WOMENS MOVEMENT to affirm women and to motivate women to believe that WOMEN can do the things that men can do as well. I never heard anyone say….”well, is it not counterproductive to boost the image of a gender? Why do women need to focus on gender….in correcting gender inequality and the women thinking they are not good enough”.
I've never said it makes no sense inspiring confidence, I've said I don't believe separating blacks from whites is a good idea, I wouldn't have thought separating women from men would've been a good idea either. Which is effectively what said schools do, for the most part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
It just seems to me that people, white people, are always criticizing black people. No matter what goes on and no matter how keenly obvious it is, it is flipped around back on us. We are the problem……why do you need to take pride in your race just because your race was denigrated for centuries as less than human. Why do you need to build your race from that inferior perception of yourself? Why can’t you just stop focusing on race….even though you feel inferior because of your race?

The flaw with many people is this ideal that acknowledging the social construct of “Race”….is the problem and hence people should be color-blind. Wrong. Unless one is color blind or totally blind, they will notice that people look different. That is the gift of our senses. The problem, the real problem, is when people interpret one race to be better than the other race. I am always going to notice how a person looks. It’s simply absurd to imply that we should not notice color, because that what sight allows. There is nothing wrong with whites having pride in being white or noticing that a person is a different color. The PROBLEM is when they assume that the other color is inferior to their own.

When whites get together for white pride, it’s to promote the doctrine of their superiority over others. White pride does not come without HATE. You cannot judge black pride by projecting from the phenomenon of white pride because black pride is not about hate, but rather, restoring a level of dignity and humanity to black people as a result of being denigrated and oppressed based upon our race.
Where did I criticize black people? I never said you were the problem, I actually specifically stated that it's primarily a white (or again anyone who makes racial assumptions) problem. I asked you why it's so important to take pride in your colour (because you referred to it as black pride), how is that critique? I thought it was trying to learn something, at the very least, a different viewpoint on it, but to the best of my understanding that question was left unanswered.

I agree 100% with the highlighted part. What I do think (and what I believe history shows) is that pride in colour (such as white pride) has an inherent tendency to have elements of superiority, or at the very least enable it. I do understand and agree with you that it's of utmost importance that young black kids (any kids really, but to keep on topic) don't grow up believing their worth less simply because they're black, however black pride is not completely void of superiority either, and though it might very well be a far smaller problem what white superiority complexes, it would be wrong to paint a picture of it being nonexistent.
 
Old 05-16-2010, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
4,464 posts, read 9,638,897 times
Reputation: 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by mekia02 View Post
TheViking85, a short rundown on why African American children should have pride in their features:
skin color: in media, and unfortunately in the african american community the lighter the skin color the "prettier" you are.
nose: a slimmer, more eurocentric nose is considered pretty
hair: straight ( and more common now blonde hair) is what is pretty

If you were to poll white parents who adopted african american girls you would see that these 3 things are top of the list of body image problems for their children. This is ( from my experience) also in the black community except that people don't talk about it. There is so much of this out there that many young african american girls have these issues which their african american features. Why do you believe that it is wrong to instill in these young girls that those features, that they were born with, are beautiful?

Do you just not know how much of an issue this is in the african american female society? Do you not know that there are things called fade creams that claim to lighten the skin that are still big selling items today? Do you not know that the hair extension industry is a billion dollar a year industry almost exclusively to satisfy the need of african american women to appear to have straight hair?
I know it is an issue (based on some Times magazine articles and a few documentaries), but for obvious reasons, my insight does not equate yours, so thank you for sharing some of it.

I do know of things like fade cream etc. I recently read an article about it (re: Pakistani and Indian women using it here in Norway). It was an interesting, in depth article outlining a problematic issue, one that I don't proclaim to know the answer to, but I have a fundamental belief in communication and I think it'll be hard to solve anything without that.

And no, I do not think it's wrong to instill self respect and self worth in young girls. Which is why I would think it important for parents to talk to their kids about it, as with any other subject. No one should feel inferior purely because of the traits and features they're born with.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mekia02 View Post
It shouldn't make sense to you... it is probably your features or the features of your race that some many young girls think will make them better than what they already are.

What is your idea of an afrocentric school? Why do you think an african american child learning about their culture would cause segregation and polarization? Do you feel the same way about greek schools, korean schools? I had a Korean friend who was American born and her parents put her in Korean school she said it was the best decision after she was older and could see the benefit that it gave her. I have attended majority white schools as a child and majority white and HBCU ( Historically Black Colleges and Universities) as an adult and HBCU's only help to build up character, and self confidence.
Yes, I do feel the same way about Greek, Korean or other type of school of this nature, hell, I'm have a reserved view of private schools all together because it divides and segregates the wealthier from those who have less.

I do agree that there can be benefits from attending such a school, such as gaining a better education (higher level private school) or gaining a better appreciation and respect in ones culture (afrocentric school), but in both cases I think our society and in extent of that, our world suffers. (Suffers might be a strong word, but in lack of a better one)

I think everyone has rights to be treated equal, have the right to the same education, jobs and position in the world as anyone else, and it's simply my opinion (or impression if you will) that isolated school environments will work against that, again, be that Greek, Korean, Black or simply upper class private schools.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mekia02 View Post
From your posts it seems that you have no experience with this type of thing first hand so why are you so against it? What if enough people like you feel so strongly about this and get together to fight an afrocentric school from being built in your area, that would mean that children would be deprived and all you could say is if it becomes evident that this really would have been positive then I'll admit I'm wrong?
No, I haven't gone to a private or race specific school, if that's what you mean.
I'm opposing it for the reasons I've written above, I think dialogue is the key element to understanding and progress and I think that will be harder in a more divided society.

What exactly does "people like you" entail? Who are we? And where have I expressed a wish to actively seek to stop the building of certain schools? I've voiced my skepticism, but you're reading too much into it if you think that means I'd refuse any one exclusive group the same rights as others are given. That I say that I'm the first to admit I was wrong entails that I think such schools will exist and that time will tell what the result will be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
No....whites just look for proxy rationalization to justify their ingrained racism.
So essentially nothing I say matters because I'm inherently racist and anything I say is simply a conscious or subconscious attempt to reason with that racism.

I guess there's just no hope for me then, nor my kids, given that my every argument regarding topics of this nature is veiled racism, they'll adopt the same narrow minded opinions. Too bad, because I really did think a multi cultural society, where ignorance was a rare exception, was possible, I guess I was wrong.
 
Old 05-16-2010, 02:56 PM
 
8,669 posts, read 6,344,426 times
Reputation: 3766
[quote=TheViking85;14201368]It's a strong opinion to say "If I'm proven wrong I'll be the first to admit it"? I'm debating a topic, which I wouldn't have if I had no opinion on it. I do have some relatively strong opinions regarding racism and bigotry, that's true, one of those opinions is that i think separation will lead to more conflict. And as stated before, you're making some very confident assumptions about my history and basis for understanding, and no, I might not have the best understanding of what it means to be black, which is why I asked at least twice why it's important to instill "black pride", but your assumptions about my grounds for understanding is just as wrong.

You asked twice why its important to focus on color but you have been told about 10 times why by me, as well as, others. Your question is rhetorical. Its really a statement of opinion formed on your part with absolutely no experience with the phenomnon.

I've never said it makes no sense inspiring confidence, I've said I don't believe separating blacks from whites is a good idea, I wouldn't have thought separating women from men would've been a good idea either. Which is effectively what said schools do, for the most part.

Do you understand that state of the Public School system in the US? Its already effectly seperate and polorized. The Detroit public schools are probably 98% black and they teach the same curricula as majority white schools in the suburbs. Creating Afrocentric schools in Detroit is does not seperate the races because the races are already seperated. Detroit used to be a majority white city. Blacks moved in and whites moved to the suburbs. We integrate and they vacate. So you need to understand that we are not starting from an "integrated" school system, but rather, one that is already polorized. So do you have a problem with The city of Detoit turning one of its schools, or more, to an Afrocentric curriculm, since the schools are already all black? Nearly all Afrocentric schools are in cities where the school distric is already poloraized by being nearly all black. So my clear question to you is....in places that are already polorized...do you still have a problem with it...yes or no?



Where did I criticize black people? I never said you were the problem, I actually specifically stated that it's primarily a white (or again anyone who makes racial assumptions) problem. I asked you why it's so important to take pride in your colour (because you referred to it as black pride), how is that critique? I thought it was trying to learn something, at the very least, a different viewpoint on it, but to the best of my understanding that question was left unanswered.

You offer no critism or plan with dealing with white racism, if you really believe that to be the source of the problem. Why don't you spend so time talking against what whites are doing as much as you spend time talking down what blacks are trying to do to counteract this racism?

I agree 100% with the highlighted part. What I do think (and what I believe history shows) is that pride in colour (such as white pride) has an inherent tendency to have elements of superiority, or at the very least enable it. I do understand and agree with you that it's of utmost importance that young black kids (any kids really, but to keep on topic) don't grow up believing their worth less simply because they're black, however black pride is not completely void of superiority either, and though it might very well be a far smaller problem what white superiority complexes, it would be wrong to paint a picture of it being nonexistent.

Narcicism is inherent to nature. Its naturally and healthy. I hate to be crude, but defication is also natural....however, diarrhea is is problematic. white pride is diarrhea.

Last edited by Indentured Servant; 05-16-2010 at 03:09 PM..
 
Old 05-16-2010, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Here
1,684 posts, read 1,428,100 times
Reputation: 1313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
Whites simple do not respect the ramifications of history. Too many think that just because something ended....that the consquences or reactions ended as well. You don't have a CLUE!!!! I get sick of such ignorance as if you are experts in what we go through better than we are. Anyone want to debate that this TOO is a legacy of racism? How do you fix this without pushing "black pride"? Why would whites need white pride....based upon what is seen here? Of the various reason for high homicide rates in blacks.....conditioned self hatred is a big part. I experienced this exact same thing with my daughter....who is now 7. We deprogrammed her by teaching focusing our attention at getting her to appreciate "blackness" as something beautiful and great. We would have never had to preech "Black pride" if not for socially conditioned self disrespect.


CNN: White, black children have white bias - UPI.com




YouTube - White Doll, Black Doll. Which one is the nice doll?
I want fatguycentric schools. Fat guys are so disrespected. Abd they aren't all jolly either. That's a negatvie stereotype... well, I'm not sure if jolly is negative, but it is a stereotype. Anyhow, bring on the fatguycentric schools.
 
Old 05-16-2010, 03:35 PM
 
8,669 posts, read 6,344,426 times
Reputation: 3766
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalileoSmith View Post
I want fatguycenric schools.
Yeah...I figured the REAL you would come out. You try to play the liberal role of understanding....but to belittle this the way you are doing shows your true colours!

No one is stopping you from have your fatguy school. Have at it! I am just wating for the day whites say "We want a poverty rate of 26% like blacks". Why can blacks have an unemployment rate twice ours? That is a double standard? Waaaahhhh....Wahhhhhhhaaaa.....blacks can do something and we can't. Spoiled brats!
 
Old 05-16-2010, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Here
1,684 posts, read 1,428,100 times
Reputation: 1313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
Yeah...I figured the REAL you would come out. You try to play the liberal role of understanding....but to belittle this the way you are doing shows your true colours!

No one is stopping you from have your fatguy school. Have at it!
I want a colorblindcentric schools too. When you where unmatching colors, you get no respect and consequently have no self-respect. It's tough, I'll tell ya.
 
Old 05-16-2010, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Here
1,684 posts, read 1,428,100 times
Reputation: 1313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
Yeah...I figured the REAL you would come out. You try to play the liberal role of understanding....but to belittle this the way you are doing shows your true colours!

No one is stopping you from have your fatguy school. Have at it! I am just wating for the day whites say "We want a poverty rate of 26% like blacks". Why can blacks have an unemployment rate twice ours? That is a double standard? Waaaahhhh....Wahhhhhhhaaaa.....blacks can do something and we can't. Spoiled brats!
I want a gas/bloating syndrome schools too. The flatulence is really tough to deal with and kids suffering from the syndrome have no self respect. They need a "gas/bloating syndromecentric school".
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