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This is an excellent point. I'm not fan of either, but, making it illegal just doesn't work at all in my opinion.
Not just that, but look at what some other countries do. Homosexuality is illegal in some countries. There are sexual in this country that are still illegal, we simply don't enforce the laws.
Its insane that people think they can legislate morals on people, when those people aren't hurting anyone, or just themselves.
I mean, you can make suicide illegal, but what would be the point? People are still going to commit suicide, whether you agree with it or not.
I'm sitting here, watching the current drug czar and last drug czar on CNN, talking about alcohol and marijuana.
The current one, Gil Kerlikowske, is saying that they are against marijuana because, "look at what alcohol and tobacco do now". The former one (sorry, didn't catch his name), said he is in favor of stricter laws on alcohol.
When will people learn, you can't stop people from doing these things.
I'm not just wanting to get into a debate about marijuana or alcohol, but all morals.
If its not widely accepted by the public, and I mean in numbers higher than 80% support, you can't tell 20% of 350,000,000 people they can't do something they want to do.
Sex, drugs, music, hate, and all of the other morals we try to tell people no to. When are we going to learn that all of these things will always exist, but as long as they aren't hurting anyone other than those who decide to participate in them, then why do you care?
What about slavery, civil rights, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, gun ownership, free speech. I believe that there are moral principles that are imperative for societies to function. Obviously each society chooses which are important enough to dictate.
What about slavery, civil rights, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, gun ownership, free speech. I believe that there are moral principles that are imperative for societies to function. Obviously each society chooses which are important enough to dictate.
We fought a war over slavery, thats not legislation. I see civil rights as part of that same war we fought.
Where do we have a law that protects your pursuit of happiness? Its in the declaration, but not in the constitution, and its not law.
Freedom of speech is widely accepted as a normal moral issue. More than 80% of the populace supports it.
I'm sitting here, watching the current drug czar and last drug czar on CNN, talking about alcohol and marijuana.
The current one, Gil Kerlikowske, is saying that they are against marijuana because, "look at what alcohol and tobacco do now". The former one (sorry, didn't catch his name), said he is in favor of stricter laws on alcohol.
When will people learn, you can't stop people from doing these things.
I'm not just wanting to get into a debate about marijuana or alcohol, but all morals.
If its not widely accepted by the public, and I mean in numbers higher than 80% support, you can't tell 20% of 350,000,000 people they can't do something they want to do.
Sex, drugs, music, hate, and all of the other morals we try to tell people no to. When are we going to learn that all of these things will always exist, but as long as they aren't hurting anyone other than those who decide to participate in them, then why do you care?
It's not really black and white. We legislate morals successfully quite a bit -- with things like laws against murder, stealing, assault, etc.
The question is, where do you stop? It's much more a question of where you stop, IMO, than whether to either legislate or not legislate morals.
What about slavery, civil rights, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, gun ownership, free speech. I believe that there are moral principles that are imperative for societies to function. Obviously each society chooses which are important enough to dictate.
To classify Gun Ownership as a "Moral Principle" is one of the biggest stretches I've ever seen in this forum. Are you suggesting that it is "Immoral" for me to not own a gun, or to own one?
What about the ownership of a Bicycle, or a Toaster Oven, or a Shop Vac? Are those moral issues?
Do you have any understanding whatsoever of what the concept of Morals is all about? Morals are exactly those principles that are NOT chosen by society. They are universal, and not validated nor encumbered by social norms, religious tenets, civil laws, or any other man-made aggregates.
The reason we have laws, is for moral people to bring about real-time modification in the behavior of people who act outside recognized moral principles. Modern man, in the increasing complexity of social order, also legislates Processes, in order to assure that everybody is on the same page, with respect to things that are neither moral or immoral, like parking zones or tax assessments. Or health and safety issues that an uneducated person could not know about himself, like lead additives in paint.
Morals, even though we express the word in the plural, is not an itemized list of things to do. Morals is a mindset embedded in a human being which directs a person to "do the right thing", and makes one feel contrite when reflecting on doing the wrong thing. People who possess no such mindset cannot be expected to comprehend what it is.
A person who has "morals" is a person who never needs to ask himself What Would Jesus Do. A person who has morals already knows.
The question is, where do you stop? It's much more a question of where you stop, IMO, than whether to either legislate or not legislate morals.
Stop? I don't know if that's possible. Most of the laws were probably originally proactive--but these days it's the other way around. They've become reactive. Such-and-such situation develops...there's no legal precedent (or no clearly defined legal precedent) and so a new law gets passed.
As far as legislating morals goes, I don't believe that happens much. You can pass as many laws as you want, but until peoples' behavior changes (or, to use the more politically correct word, modifies), then you haven't succeeded in the morals arena.
[quote=jtur88;14287530]To classify Gun Ownership as a "Moral Principle" is one of the biggest stretches I've ever seen in this forum. Are you suggesting that it is "Immoral" for me to not own a gun, or to own one? [quote]
HHMMM I don't see where I stated "Gun ownership" as a moral principal it self. The context to the constuction of the legislated right to gun ownership is a moral principle. You know that. I'm sniffing a little straw in your attack.
Last edited by Bulldogdad; 05-22-2010 at 01:22 PM..
We fought a war over slavery, thats not legislation. I see civil rights as part of that same war we fought.
Where do we have a law that protects your pursuit of happiness? Its in the declaration, but not in the constitution, and its not law.
Freedom of speech is widely accepted as a normal moral issue. More than 80% of the populace supports it.
Guns aren't a moral issue.
Every item you stated above is legislated. Every item is also a moral principle except Guns. Guns are an inanimate object. The right to own them is legislated and based on a moral principle. Again society picks which moral principles it wishes to legislate. Unfortunately your right to pursue happiness through the use of the mind altering drug cannabis is currently legislated illegal by the federal government. The pursuit of happiness is legislated on a daily basis.
You're walking down a slippery slope. Why stop there? There are plenty of sexual predators who prey upon children. Prison doesn't stop them. They're just going to keep on doing it so why bother keeping it illegal? Armed robbery keeps on happening even though it's against the law. Why bother keepign it illegal? Why not just take the law off the books? Currently, people who illegally use weed do so in private so as not to get caught. I'm for it being legal for real medical reasons, not the ones California clinics imagine up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979
I'm sitting here, watching the current drug czar and last drug czar on CNN, talking about alcohol and marijuana.
The current one, Gil Kerlikowske, is saying that they are against marijuana because, "look at what alcohol and tobacco do now". The former one (sorry, didn't catch his name), said he is in favor of stricter laws on alcohol.
When will people learn, you can't stop people from doing these things.
I'm not just wanting to get into a debate about marijuana or alcohol, but all morals.
If its not widely accepted by the public, and I mean in numbers higher than 80% support, you can't tell 20% of 350,000,000 people they can't do something they want to do.
Sex, drugs, music, hate, and all of the other morals we try to tell people no to. When are we going to learn that all of these things will always exist, but as long as they aren't hurting anyone other than those who decide to participate in them, then why do you care?
We fought a war over slavery, thats not legislation. I see civil rights as part of that same war we fought.
Where do we have a law that protects your pursuit of happiness? Its in the declaration, but not in the constitution, and its not law.
Freedom of speech is widely accepted as a normal moral issue. More than 80% of the populace supports it.
Guns aren't a moral issue.
Wrong. Lincoln and Congress freed the slaves regardless of the war. It's in our nation's laws.
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