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Old 07-14-2010, 08:49 AM
 
Location: North Phoenix
1,128 posts, read 1,404,244 times
Reputation: 687

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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
You can respect Nature and still hunt. Seems some forget humans are hunter-gatherers and have hunted whales for at least thousands of years.

It would be helpful to actually understand how those 20-25 minutes are being measured: movement. Reflexes continue movement in a whale well after the brain is entirely destroyed. The whale may appear to be moving but is dead. Waiting for all movement to end is the only practical, safe way in the ocean of determining when it's safe to haul in the whale.

BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | 'When do whales die?' ask experts

Most pollution in the sea is not from fishing/hunting, it's from petroleum spills, dumping by industry...

Over hunting does deplete the marine population. If we didn't have rules and set standards for hunting other countries would be gooing crazy and there really would be a huge problem!
And yes, I know what causes the pollution-that's another factor to consider abouot the enviironment...what kind of fuel we use, how we dispose of garbage....etc...as it is we now have this disaster in the gulf of Mexico, the huge island of plastuc garbage floating around in the Pacfic which is contributing toi the demise of oour planet and animals.....




Supporting people who engage in violent terrorism is hate in my book.

There was a market for buffalo hides but the main reason behind it was to starve out the Indians. The federal government promoted killing them off.

Say what you will but the Cove was blatantly propaganda. The video I posted speaks for itself, showing Watson a liar, and ramming a ship. Watch whale wars enough though and you'll see him lying all the time (like boarding a ship then claiming it was kidnapping). Sea shepherd is not doing "good work," they're violent criminals.

I don't think you get it, I find the environment quite important, but I base my opinions on science and reason, not the emotional nonsense sea shepherd bases theirs on.
So you do not believe the dolphins are really hunted in Japan and eaten? You think thats all just made up? What would be the point of that?

I don't want to keep arguing with you, we can agree to dsiagree but I still support Sea Shepard and it's beyond me how anyone can go club a seal to death or harpoon such an intelligent and magnificent mammal such as a whale . If your okay with that then thats your opinion.
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Old 07-14-2010, 09:26 AM
 
Location: The Woods
16,454 posts, read 21,443,821 times
Reputation: 8408
I did not say they do not eat dolphins. I said the film is propagada, for the animal rights movement. It contains many incorrect pieces of information and is intended to appeal to emotions to try to get people to support the animal rights agenda.

BTW: technically, one quick, hard hit to the head of any animal, seal or fox or whatever, will knock it out and kill it instantly, and rather painlessly. How humane clubbing a seal is depends on the strength and skill of the person hunting them. I tend to favor using rifles though for hunting like that.
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Old 07-14-2010, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 49,482,128 times
Reputation: 24548
I prefer living without hunting, fishing or trapping any wild stock. If we want to eat or use animal products we should take the time and energy to farm them and let the remains of the natural system restore its own equilibrium.
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Old 07-14-2010, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
19,839 posts, read 36,333,352 times
Reputation: 21156
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
This was the kind of rhetoric i was trying to understand when i first posted the topic, so because i'm environmentally aware and have a respect for conservation for said environment i'm considered a self centered opinionated ignorant sociopath?,
That's not quite what the post you were taking this assumption away from says.

Only IF you are the kind of person who does this:


Originally Posted by Tin Knocker

Generally they are self centered opinionated ignorant sociopaths who just need something to rant about. Many people fall for the BS but try finding something meaningfully positive that PETA or the like has done.


without examining the various claims using science and reason rather than rhetoric and emotion, without swallowing whole what you're told by those with something to gain by selling it to you (donations and political power, among other things), without trying desperately to justify the like of PETA/HSUS/ALF/Sea Shepherd, et al when their failings are pointed out (Rico suit, anyone? Video doctoring? False advertising?), would you fall into that category. If you don't fall into that category, then you're just like the rest of us, a person concerned for the environment rather than in forcing your own ideology, facts and liberty be damned, onto everyone else in order to support your own world view by forcing everyone else to pretend to agree with you.

It's THOSE people who give environmentalists a bad name. I'd be willing to bet that just about everyone who is engaged in this discussion cares about the environment and could be called an environmentalist for that reason.
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Old 07-14-2010, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Michigan--good on the rocks
2,544 posts, read 3,445,606 times
Reputation: 1931
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
I prefer living without hunting, fishing or trapping any wild stock. If we want to eat or use animal products we should take the time and energy to farm them and let the remains of the natural system restore its own equilibrium.
The only way for the natural system to restore its own equilibrium is to bring back all the predators which we have removed from it. Are you ok with living amongst wolf packs, with cougars and bears in abundance? This would by necessity include areas where people live. What about children walking or waiting for the bus to school every morning? I don't want my kids to have to be under constant threat of being eaten by wolves.

Otherwise, we must take on the role which was played by apex predators, which is controlling the populations of animals such as deer. If they are not controlled by hunting, whether by human or animal predators, then they will overpopulate and die off in a much slower, crueler fashion. We have problems in Michigan right now with Bovine tuberculosis and chronic wasting disease due to overpopulation of deer. It's pretty hard to argue that hunting is more cruel than corporate farming.

I believe we must individually do all we can to minimize damage to the environment. What can be done will vary greatly dependent upon individual circumstances. But it has been shown time and time again that average, everyday people quickly become resentful of political extremists and obvious propaganda from either side.
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Old 07-14-2010, 10:34 AM
 
2,671 posts, read 2,702,048 times
Reputation: 1979
Quote:
BTW: technically, one quick, hard hit to the head of any animal, seal or fox or whatever, will knock it out and kill it instantly, and rather painlessly. How humane clubbing a seal is depends on the strength and skill of the person hunting them. I tend to favor using rifles though for hunting like that.
The five kingdoms: Monera, Protista, Plant, Fungi, Animal

I always find it odd that we humans tend to speak of animals as if we aren't part of that kingdom.
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Old 07-14-2010, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Michigan--good on the rocks
2,544 posts, read 3,445,606 times
Reputation: 1931
So then, given that we are, in fact, very different from the rest of the animal kingdom in many ways, how would you prefer we distinguish ourselves? That's a rather plebian, ineffectual point that doesn't really contribute to the discussion.
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Old 07-14-2010, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
19,839 posts, read 36,333,352 times
Reputation: 21156
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
This was the kind of rhetoric i was trying to understand when i first posted the topic, so because i'm environmentally aware and have a respect for conservation for said environment i'm considered a self centered opinionated ignorant sociopath?,
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanman13 View Post
The only way for the natural system to restore its own equilibrium is to bring back all the predators which we have removed from it. Are you ok with living amongst wolf packs, with cougars and bears in abundance? This would by necessity include areas where people live. What about children walking or waiting for the bus to school every morning? I don't want my kids to have to be under constant threat of being eaten by wolves.

Otherwise, we must take on the role which was played by apex predators, which is controlling the populations of animals such as deer. If they are not controlled by hunting, whether by human or animal predators, then they will overpopulate and die off in a much slower, crueler fashion. We have problems in Michigan right now with Bovine tuberculosis and chronic wasting disease due to overpopulation of deer. It's pretty hard to argue that hunting is more cruel than corporate farming.

I believe we must individually do all we can to minimize damage to the environment. What can be done will vary greatly dependent upon individual circumstances. But it has been shown time and time again that average, everyday people quickly become resentful of political extremists and obvious propaganda from either side.
This is so true. If we want to play God (and a lot of us seem to want to do that), we have to take on the responsibilities, as well. That's part of what being "stewards" means. Life is not a Disney movie populated by cartoon animals, after all. (No, really. It's not. And all of the wishful thinking in the world can't make it into one. )
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Old 07-14-2010, 11:05 AM
 
Location: The Woods
16,454 posts, read 21,443,821 times
Reputation: 8408
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
I prefer living without hunting, fishing or trapping any wild stock. If we want to eat or use animal products we should take the time and energy to farm them and let the remains of the natural system restore its own equilibrium.
Farming destroys habitat.
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Old 07-14-2010, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
19,839 posts, read 36,333,352 times
Reputation: 21156
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
Farming destroys habitat.
Bingo! Whether it's for growing livestock, or growing vegetables (and you'd have to grow more vegetables on more land to replace the nutrition that meat provides, if everyone went vegetarian, putting you directly in conflict with the wild animals for habitat, condemning them to slow, lingering deaths from disease and starvation rather than quick death after lives meant to keep them in the best health possible).

These things need to be thought, not just felt, through. What is the easily predictable consequence of changes and laws to require those changes?
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