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Old 07-14-2010, 12:35 PM
 
29,988 posts, read 35,948,584 times
Reputation: 12725

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
I prefer living without hunting, fishing or trapping any wild stock. If we want to eat or use animal products we should take the time and energy to farm them and let the remains of the natural system restore its own equilibrium.
Unrealistic and naive at best. What you suggest leads to the spread of poaching, disease and starvation of many wild animals. Preservationists have little understanding of conservation and wild game management. A little reading would go a long way.

It is thanks to hunters that as much natural habitat has been set aside as has been. It is thanks to hunters that farmers actively pursue a balance of tillable acreage combined with wildlife habitat. It is thanks to legal hunting that many of the African large game species survive today.
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Old 07-14-2010, 01:28 PM
 
33,198 posts, read 39,260,099 times
Reputation: 28541
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
That's not quite what the post you were taking this assumption away from says.

Only IF you are the kind of person who does this:


Originally Posted by Tin Knocker

Generally they are self centered opinionated ignorant sociopaths who just need something to rant about. Many people fall for the BS but try finding something meaningfully positive that PETA or the like has done.


without examining the various claims using science and reason rather than rhetoric and emotion, without swallowing whole what you're told by those with something to gain by selling it to you (donations and political power, among other things), without trying desperately to justify the like of PETA/HSUS/ALF/Sea Shepherd, et al when their failings are pointed out (Rico suit, anyone? Video doctoring? False advertising?), would you fall into that category. If you don't fall into that category, then you're just like the rest of us, a person concerned for the environment rather than in forcing your own ideology, facts and liberty be damned, onto everyone else in order to support your own world view by forcing everyone else to pretend to agree with you.

It's THOSE people who give environmentalists a bad name. I'd be willing to bet that just about everyone who is engaged in this discussion cares about the environment and could be called an environmentalist for that reason.
I agree that some one trying to ram their agenda down your throat can be quite irritating especially if you dont agree with said agenda but way too many times this harsh anti environmental frame of mind is levied at people who partake in the most minuscule form of environmentalism/consevationism for example = like buying a Prius for example gets a lot of tree-hugger,socialist, liberal, whacko type epithets thrown the owners way.i just dont get why so many people have this immediate knee-jerk negative reaction to all things environmental.
a self centered opinionated ignorant sociopath?, Is not what i'd call most environmental/conservationists no matter how much they went on about saving a whale, a tree, a beach or a nearby park.
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Old 07-14-2010, 01:29 PM
 
Location: North Phoenix
1,128 posts, read 1,408,085 times
Reputation: 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
I did not say they do not eat dolphins. I said the film is propagada, for the animal rights movement. It contains many incorrect pieces of information and is intended to appeal to emotions to try to get people to support the animal rights agenda.

BTW: technically, one quick, hard hit to the head of any animal, seal or fox or whatever, will knock it out and kill it instantly, and rather painlessly. How humane clubbing a seal is depends on the strength and skill of the person hunting them. I tend to favor using rifles though for hunting like that.
www.SeaShepherd.org/seals/

If people think killing these animals and marine life is okay...it's no wonder the world is in the state it is in.
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Old 07-14-2010, 01:55 PM
 
2,671 posts, read 2,711,643 times
Reputation: 1979
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanman13 View Post
So then, given that we are, in fact, very different from the rest of the animal kingdom in many ways, how would you prefer we distinguish ourselves? That's a rather plebian, ineffectual point that doesn't really contribute to the discussion.
I'm not sure we humans are so different from many other species; some of them sure, but that is the very reason for taxonomy. The problem is we think of ourselves as superior to anything else, animate or inanimate. So much so, that we go around destroying, 'conquering', 'managing' the natural world. I don't think we humans are nearly as smart as we think we are.

Balance is the key to everything on this planet. It makes sense, since everything on this planet breaks down to physics and chemistry. Things are in a constant state of flux, but always working toward equilibrium. Except us humans. We think we can fix everything that we disrupt. We can't. Disruption is a necessity for modern day conveniences that none of us want to give up. That's a fact, however, we should continually work to achieve better techniques, and best management practices that disrupt less.

There was a time when humans thought wetlands were worthless, and filled them in for farmland. It's only been within the last fifty years that we've begun to learn how important they are for flood control, and decreasing the amount of pollutants that reach a lake or stream.

We humans spend more time backtracking to correct mistakes made when we were trying to improve the natural world or when we over managed some system.

When we humans reach the point in evolution where we grasp that we are not superior to everything else, and that we are only one part of many systems of this planet, then maybe we will have less strife and conflict.
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Old 07-14-2010, 02:45 PM
 
Location: The Woods
16,459 posts, read 21,521,559 times
Reputation: 8417
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixscorpiogirl View Post
www.SeaShepherd.org/seals/

If people think killing these animals and marine life is okay...it's no wonder the world is in the state it is in.
If you understood the science of wildlife conservation and management, you wouldn't be posting a link to sea shepherd as a reason for anything. Seals easily get overpopulated. Since the market was damaged by the animal rights groups lobbying in europe and the U.S. for a ban on imports, harvests are down, and Canada is going to kill and simply burn the seals that would have been used otherwise, to alleviate overpopulation.

BTW: hunting the baby white seals was banned in the 80's, they are not skinned alive either. Just more SS lies...

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/...seal-hunt.html
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Old 07-14-2010, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Michigan--good on the rocks
2,544 posts, read 3,460,770 times
Reputation: 1932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecovlke View Post
I'm not sure we humans are so different from many other species; some of them sure, but that is the very reason for taxonomy. The problem is we think of ourselves as superior to anything else, animate or inanimate. So much so, that we go around destroying, 'conquering', 'managing' the natural world. I don't think we humans are nearly as smart as we think we are.

Balance is the key to everything on this planet. It makes sense, since everything on this planet breaks down to physics and chemistry. Things are in a constant state of flux, but always working toward equilibrium. Except us humans. We think we can fix everything that we disrupt. We can't. Disruption is a necessity for modern day conveniences that none of us want to give up. That's a fact, however, we should continually work to achieve better techniques, and best management practices that disrupt less.

There was a time when humans thought wetlands were worthless, and filled them in for farmland. It's only been within the last fifty years that we've begun to learn how important they are for flood control, and decreasing the amount of pollutants that reach a lake or stream.

We humans spend more time backtracking to correct mistakes made when we were trying to improve the natural world or when we over managed some system.

When we humans reach the point in evolution where we grasp that we are not superior to everything else, and that we are only one part of many systems of this planet, then maybe we will have less strife and conflict.
So when we disrupt the system less, and have many more apex predators running around to manage it nature's way, how do you answer the question I asked in my previous post? Are you willing to have wolf packs running around in the suburbs around your home?
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:25 PM
 
Location: In The Outland
6,023 posts, read 11,532,499 times
Reputation: 3535
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanman13 View Post
Are you willing to have wolf packs running around in the suburbs around your home?
Funny you said that ! We actually do.
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:29 PM
 
Location: New Hope, MN
2,030 posts, read 4,198,495 times
Reputation: 812
Who knows
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Old 07-14-2010, 07:29 PM
 
7,038 posts, read 6,675,353 times
Reputation: 5323
It's not just a matter of tree-hugging.

Irresponsible harvesting of resources destroys the use of habitat for other end-users whether it be for wildlife or for commercial use. You don't have a right to make a land or water toxic just because you own it now. There'll be future users and downstream users who'll be affected.


Youtube - TVA coal ash spill


YouTube - Scenes from the areas affected by the TVA pond breach
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Old 07-14-2010, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Michigan--good on the rocks
2,544 posts, read 3,460,770 times
Reputation: 1932
I changed my mind. We are absolutely no different from other animals. Therefore anything we do is natural, and should not be disrupted because it is nature's way. It would upset the delicate equilibrium of the natural order.



The truth is, I believe strongly that we need to be good stewards of the world we live in. But the fact is, we are different in many ways from the rest of animalia, and we need to take responsibility for the things we have changed. I agree that we should use resources wisely, and not cause permanent damage where we can avoid it. But our approach needs to be based on good science, and not an emotional appeal, aggressive political dishonesty, or greed. We should seek the truth, and act on that. Part of the truth is that it is in our nature to alter our environment for our betterment. The debate lies in the definition of betterment.
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