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Old 09-19-2010, 06:21 PM
 
29,988 posts, read 37,138,003 times
Reputation: 12760

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingAll4Seasons View Post
Especially when we don't get our morning cup!!
LOL , just hook me up to an IV with a fast drip rate.
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Old 09-20-2010, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Nort Seid
5,288 posts, read 7,593,732 times
Reputation: 2453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
Those who are unmovable in their demands concerning environment and wish society to take the hit are simply fanatical, ignorant and emotional people who latch on to these movements to fulfill their own need to feel good about themselves.
Ah yes, the tired-old my subjective beliefs of what is best for "society" are better than yours philosophy.

People making excuses for polluters is as old as mankind.

Unfortunately, so are the tragic consequences of pollution.

Here's a nice overview, rest assured that more people every year are interested in results, not the latest libertarian arguments that this is all about individual rights. What is true is that this shouldn't be a partisan issue - this should be a human issue.

History - water, effects, environmental, disasters, pollutants, United States, chemicals, industrial, wells, toxic, world, human, power, sources, disposal, use, life, health
Go on, all of you: read that top to bottom.

As for the "pushy" complaint, re-read this folder and see how many times "liberals" are equated with "idiots" "morons" or other grade-level potty mouth language. It's pretty clear who the adults are here.
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Old 09-21-2010, 08:58 AM
 
123 posts, read 184,526 times
Reputation: 100
we need clean air !
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Old 09-27-2010, 04:56 PM
 
13,072 posts, read 11,409,415 times
Reputation: 2608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi-town Native View Post
Ah yes, the tired-old my subjective beliefs of what is best for "society" are better than yours philosophy.

People making excuses for polluters is as old as mankind.

Unfortunately, so are the tragic consequences of pollution.

Here's a nice overview, rest assured that more people every year are interested in results, not the latest libertarian arguments that this is all about individual rights. What is true is that this shouldn't be a partisan issue - this should be a human issue.

History - water, effects, environmental, disasters, pollutants, United States, chemicals, industrial, wells, toxic, world, human, power, sources, disposal, use, life, health
Go on, all of you: read that top to bottom.

As for the "pushy" complaint, re-read this folder and see how many times "liberals" are equated with "idiots" "morons" or other grade-level potty mouth language. It's pretty clear who the adults are here.
You assume your position on solutions and topics of dealing with the obstacles of pollution and the like is the only one.

You make claim that your way is the only way. You demand impractical solutions because you place your ideal above that of humanity. You simply use humanity as a driver to make you appear honest in your position, yet your position often is a detriment to humanity in its pursuit of the environment.

I do not deny there are problems with pollution and many other issues. I object to the manner in which people who hold absolute positions and claim supreme authority to them.

These are the people I am talking about. If this describes you, then my position stands. If this does not describe you, then it was not meant for you.
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Old 09-29-2010, 05:40 AM
 
34,272 posts, read 41,320,656 times
Reputation: 29761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
You assume your position on solutions and topics of dealing with the obstacles of pollution and the like is the only one.

You make claim that your way is the only way. You demand impractical solutions because you place your ideal above that of humanity. You simply use humanity as a driver to make you appear honest in your position, yet your position often is a detriment to humanity in its pursuit of the environment.

I do not deny there are problems with pollution and many other issues. I object to the manner in which people who hold absolute positions and claim supreme authority to them.

These are the people I am talking about. If this describes you, then my position stands. If this does not describe you, then it was not meant for you.
Nomander no offense but when reading your reply its kinda describing you..
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Old 09-29-2010, 08:06 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,268 posts, read 19,248,961 times
Reputation: 8460
I like tree-huggers, they tend to be idealistic, relatively little materialistic pagans with a more holistic view of the world and their own role in it
I dislike people who dislike tree-huggers. Trees are wonderful, key living beings, probably more important to the world than humans are.
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Old 09-29-2010, 08:51 AM
 
13,072 posts, read 11,409,415 times
Reputation: 2608
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Nomander no offense but when reading your reply its kinda describing you..
Interesting...

I say this because you quoted me and made a snide comment that had no value to the discussion right after I wrote this:

Quote:
Pro environmentalist? Those who make an effort in their personal life and also promote publicly? I have absolutely no problems with.

Idiots who "think" they know what the hell they are talking about and emotionally drive every issue with an urgency and demand to save the world? Sorry, I don't hate them, but I view them with the same significance as the mud the collects in a deep tread shoe. Stomp it out and move on, they aren't worth the effort of attention.

We had a lot of these idiots in California when I used to live there. My friends had fathers who worked in Fish and Game as well as the Forestry Service, Search and Rescue, etc... to which we were constantly involved in our youth as we were growing up.

I also worked in my youth for the rice, almond, and dairy farmers. We had a very liberal university in our town, filled with pompous-ass self absorbed and ignorant city goers from the south that thought they knew all about the environment and what was best.

These people were strong on emotion, light on understanding. They had all these grand ideas of how everything they had heard from their organizations were dire issues. The problem is, they had no common sense and were completely ignorant on even the most simple issues of reality.

I have a problem with those types. There are a few environmentalists that I have known who could be classified as "tree huggers", yet they had enough sense to understand the issues they spoke of. The thing is, they didn't take the extreme hard line issue that their idiot counter parts did. They understood what was propaganda BS and what was actually a concern.

What was funny is that they worked with those in the industry to achieve a balance for both and they understood that the solutions couldn't simply be going back to living in the stone-age. In fact, those of such that I knew encouraged progress through technology, but simply wanted to make sure we did it in the best way to maximize the result for BOTH in the process.

Those who are unmovable in their demands concerning environment and wish society to take the hit are simply fanatical, ignorant and emotional people who latch on to these movements to fulfill their own need to feel good about themselves.
If you look at what I wrote (the bolded), you see that I do not dismiss those who have issues with the environment, my issue is with those who have absolute positions on the issue and demand conformity. Also, you dismiss my response in the post you just responded to:

Quote:
I do not deny there are problems with pollution and many other issues. I object to the manner in which people who hold absolute positions and claim supreme authority to them.
So please explain to me how my description of environmentalists who demand people toe the line and refuse to approach the issues with a more practical sense while requiring everyone throw out the baby with the bath water to attend to their solutions describes me?

I do not claim there are not problems with pollution. I do not claim that we should not find solutions to be cleaner and more efficient. My position is simply that we should do such in a manner that achieves both a cleaner and more efficient environment while also continuing to achieve advancements in the technologies we evaluate. Devolving societies technology and advancement to serve a ideology is not practical, it is not efficient to productive society, nor is it reasonable in purpose.

So again, please explain how you came to such a conclusion and please use my own responses to support your accusation.

Or are you here merely to heckle and troll people with your accusations and snide remarks?
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Old 09-29-2010, 08:56 AM
 
13,072 posts, read 11,409,415 times
Reputation: 2608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I like tree-huggers, they tend to be idealistic, relatively little materialistic pagans with a more holistic view of the world and their own role in it
I dislike people who dislike tree-huggers. Trees are wonderful, key living beings, probably more important to the world than humans are.

And this is why people may have such a strong aversion to them. When someone views their own life and the lives of others as less important than their pet ideology, it is a tell tale to how they may react in situations where there may be a choice.

For instance, based on your mention, if it came to down to the life of a human or that of a tree, it appears you would side with a tree.

I can see why people might have a very strong opposition to that line of thinking. It is impractical and self defeating.
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Old 09-29-2010, 10:03 AM
 
Location: playing in the colorful Colorado dirt
4,486 posts, read 4,466,083 times
Reputation: 6954
How many of you have come to the realization that if you took the same amount of time and energy that you expend on fighting about "it" and used it instead to work on solutions for "it" you might actually find some?

I'm just sayin...
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Old 09-29-2010, 10:16 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,268 posts, read 19,248,961 times
Reputation: 8460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
And this is why people may have such a strong aversion to them. When someone views their own life and the lives of others as less important than their pet ideology, it is a tell tale to how they may react in situations where there may be a choice.

For instance, based on your mention, if it came to down to the life of a human or that of a tree, it appears you would side with a tree.

I can see why people might have a very strong opposition to that line of thinking. It is impractical and self defeating.
It is simply an objective view of mine. Even ants and earthworms are more important to the earth than humans, but does that mean I would prefer to kill a human rather than an ant or earthworm if I were in such an awkward situation? Certainly not.
But don't ask me to choose between a tree and Hitler
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