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Old 09-30-2010, 06:41 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,161 posts, read 19,193,997 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
Some may, just as some black people steal, yet does this make black people thieves?

Just because some businesses have acted in poor manners and disregarded responsibility to their actions does not make "business" bad, it simply makes a bad business person.
To me business is more like Islam, a bad thing that is prone to bring out the bad in people.
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Old 09-30-2010, 06:45 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,161 posts, read 19,193,997 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pamelaBeurman View Post
Ok,so you're pissed about the trees,and you should be.

My question to you is, other than being pissed about it and stating it on this forum, have you personally done anything to stop or change for the better, the mass destruction of trees in your area?
What an odd question that is. The ones setting those fires are criminals bringing about the death of several firemen each year just so they can manipulate the price of wood and real estate. Not even the specialized police task forces know how to stop them, so how am I supposed to do that? It's like asking your neighbor to stop the mafia.
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Old 09-30-2010, 06:52 AM
 
13,072 posts, read 11,388,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
To me business is more like Islam, a bad thing that is prone to bring out the bad in people.
Same could be said about money, or any possessions (they create envy and so bring out bad behavior).

You could say that about a pretty woman (they encourage lustful thoughts and so bring about bad behavior).

Problem is, none of those are the issue. The "bad behavior" comes only from the person.

In each circumstance, blame is placed not on the responsible party, but the object to which the party uses.

Kind of like blaming guns for a murder while ignoring the fact that the gun was incapable of that act without the person.

Though I would be interested for you to explain what it is exactly about business that you think produces such?
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Old 09-30-2010, 07:24 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,161 posts, read 19,193,997 times
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Indeed, overly beautiful women bear a similar risk as money. Don't get me wrong, I like the sight of a beautiful woman, but I would not want to date one To me it makes much more sense to find a woman whose appearance would get, say, a B or a good C on the American marking scale

Regarding your question, I suppose the main culprit is competition. The stiffer it is, the less sustainable and more rogue businesses tend to behave unless there is strict regulation and enforcement keeping businesses at bay.

Behind the competition is the fear to lose, among other things to lose face and thus status. In my view that is typical of men, many of whom still have that alpha thingy going on. I guess that rather than the glass ceiling is the real reason why there are relatively few female top managers, CEOs etc. Women usually lack that silent war thinking, that still drives many men.

Of course money plays a role, too, but it is more like a means of measuring and displaying success and power, especially to the other sex. I guess ever since humans invented precisely countable currency (initially shells, if I am not mistaken), cheating, fraud, stealing, hoarding etc. were on the increase in order to outshine competition.
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Old 09-30-2010, 07:43 AM
 
Location: playing in the colorful Colorado dirt
4,486 posts, read 4,459,205 times
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Neuling, why would you find my question, that you didn't really answer, to be odd?

I don't know which country you live in but that shouldn't matter. Reading your posts I see anger,criticism and a lot of attitude. What I don't see is a real solution. What good does it do to debate,lecture and criticize when it isn't backed up by activism?

If you're truly upset by a situation the way to handle it is to get involved and work to change it. Not .such is resolved when all people do is whine and cry. This isn't meant just for you either. The world is full of people that would rather hide and ***** about things as opposed to actually doing something to change it.

Which one are you?
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Old 09-30-2010, 08:36 AM
 
13,072 posts, read 11,388,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Indeed, overly beautiful women bear a similar risk as money. Don't get me wrong, I like the sight of a beautiful woman, but I would not want to date one To me it makes much more sense to find a woman whose appearance would get, say, a B or a good C on the American marking scale
My point is though that we can extend anything to the level where we can point to it if we misplace blame. That is, these things are not the drivers, it is the actions of people to which are. A spoon is not a weapon, and yet if there were a sudden outbreak of murders with spoons, the knee jerk reaction of people would be to point to the spoon as the cause or motivating element. It is absurd to think so, but then it is no different than looking at the practice of business and blaming it as the motivator of peoples poor actions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Regarding your question, I suppose the main culprit is competition. The stiffer it is, the less sustainable and more rogue businesses tend to behave unless there is strict regulation and enforcement keeping businesses at bay.
And yet is it competition or some people's lack of maturity and integrity to which they taint competition with their poor behavior? Competition doesn't seem to be any more responsible than our previous examples. To live is a competition. We compete each and every day to survive, to grow, to excel. Why is not poor actions of people because they lack proper qualities not the culprit? Also, if regulation and laws were able to keep it at bay, then why does this behavior exist in force regardless?

A businessman who will act unethical and poorly, will do so regardless of law (and this is consistently proven to be so). Also, what stops government to which makes the regulations and laws from being just as unethical and poor in their actions of regulation as the businesses they regulate? We constantly see scandals where business and government to which regulates them do back alley deals which create more problems than if the business was not regulated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Behind the competition is the fear to lose, among other things to lose face and thus status. In my view that is typical of men, many of whom still have that alpha thingy going on. I guess that rather than the glass ceiling is the real reason why there are relatively few female top managers, CEOs etc. Women usually lack that silent war thinking, that still drives many men.
Fear of failure (losing) is a weakness of character. Success is a process of evaluating ones failures in order to obtain success. Success is not obtained without failure. This again falls to the individual and their lacking in this area. The competition did not foster this behavior as the persons lacking in character exists regardless of competition. To blame competition and then attempt to remove it for the sake of avoiding someones possible abuse due to a flaw in character is simply suppressing the problem and not properly attending to it. This application of treatment results in the increasing need to control people in order to preemptively avoid a possible abuse they may seek. Doing so blames everyone as such, falsely accuses those who do not have such a deficiency. It is a poor method and similar to cutting off the leg rather than bandaging the foot.

As for men and women, I disagree. That is, I don't deny behaviors as such from men, but women are just as bad in situations. Women have committed just as unethical and poor business practices as men have. There is no lesser offender, they are equal in their ability to be ruthless.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Of course money plays a role, too, but it is more like a means of measuring and displaying success and power, especially to the other sex. I guess ever since humans invented precisely countable currency (initially shells, if I am not mistaken), cheating, fraud, stealing, hoarding etc. were on the increase in order to outshine competition.
Again, only those who view money with such worship are impressed by such and make such poor actions because of such. Money is not the cause, people are (or rather each individual unto themselves). People who have poor characters, poor social behavior, and immature ideals concerning money, wealth, and power.

So I guess I disagree here. That is, you appear to blame things that have no real control and dismiss those who are in full control.

For instance, a commonly used quote that is misquoted due to the misunderstanding of the very principals we are discussing is "Money is the root of all evil", yet this is incorrect for money has no power, it is simply an object. It is correctly quoted as "For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil" as this properly places the responsibility in the hands of the one who abuses the money. That is, money, business, competition, etc... are not evil, bad, or drivers for poor behavior, rather it is those who have an unhealthy view of them due to a failing in character to which makes them appear as such.

In the end, it is not business that causes a man to be such, but the man himself. This can not be corrected by banning business as that man of lacking character is not attended to. That is, the symptoms are chased after while the cause is ignored.

This is why the founders for instance when talking about our government were adamant about society being a virtuous and moral one for without such, it doesn't matter what system is in place, corruption and poor behavior will foster.

Last edited by Nomander; 09-30-2010 at 08:45 AM..
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Old 09-30-2010, 08:45 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,161 posts, read 19,193,997 times
Reputation: 8416
Quote:
Originally Posted by pamelaBeurman View Post
Neuling, why would you find my question, that you didn't really answer, to be odd?

I don't know which country you live in but that shouldn't matter. Reading your posts I see anger,criticism and a lot of attitude. What I don't see is a real solution. What good does it do to debate,lecture and criticize when it isn't backed up by activism?

If you're truly upset by a situation the way to handle it is to get involved and work to change it. Not .such is resolved when all people do is whine and cry. This isn't meant just for you either. The world is full of people that would rather hide and ***** about things as opposed to actually doing something to change it.

Which one are you?

I did answer your question, you just didn't like or understand my answer. I repeat, I am not a policeman whose job it is to hunt down criminals.
I do enough for the environment wherever I can, probably much more than you.
You're barking up the wrong tree here...
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Old 09-30-2010, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
15,686 posts, read 26,639,713 times
Reputation: 20256
I for one love trees. They make the best furniture and are great for building homes. Also the books I read are made with paper and as far as i know the paper is a product made from trees. While a tree is standing though their are so many great uses. I mean who hasn't hung out in a tree waiting in anticipation of a deer to come by so you could get a good shot at him. Trees are amazing and they have so many great uses. Who wouldn't be a tree hugger?
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Old 09-30-2010, 08:59 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,161 posts, read 19,193,997 times
Reputation: 8416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
My point is though...
I am a bit short on time, so don't expect me to reply in as lengthy a manner

I just don't buy into your entire logic. For instance, although things like money, weapons etc. as such are not bad as they are not living beings with character and will, their mere existence often brings out the bad in people, more easily in some, less easily in others.
In German we have a saying, Gelegenheit macht den Dieb, i.e. opportunity makes someone become a thief.

Nor do I share your views regarding women or most anything else you wrote. But discussions with you never lead anywhere anyway So I'll just save a lot of time and leave it at that...
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Old 09-30-2010, 09:01 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,161 posts, read 19,193,997 times
Reputation: 8416
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
I for one love trees. They make the best furniture and are great for building homes. Also the books I read are made with paper and as far as i know the paper is a product made from trees. While a tree is standing though their are so many great uses. I mean who hasn't hung out in a tree waiting in anticipation of a deer to come by so you could get a good shot at him. Trees are amazing and they have so many great uses. Who wouldn't be a tree hugger?
Nothing of that has anything to do with tree-hugging, but I suppose you know that
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