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I am a bit short on time, so don't expect me to reply in as lengthy a manner
I just don't buy into your entire logic. For instance, although things like money, weapons etc. as such are not bad as they are not living beings with character and will, their mere existence often brings out the bad in people, more easily in some, less easily in others.
I don't see how that is possible. Maybe you could explain in detail how for instance a weapon all of a sudden puts such bad thoughts into a persons head that were not there in the first place?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling
In German we have a saying, Gelegenheit macht den Dieb, i.e. opportunity makes someone become a thief.
It might make someone who considers stealing a thief, but a person who considers stealing is already a thief. The action of taking can not exist without the desire to do so. An opportunity of theft to one may mean nothing to another. That saying condemns everyone as a theif already for it assumes that giving the opportunity, all will steal. That by the evaluation of simple logic is false. It is a generality, a fallacious belief.
For instance, just the other day I walked by a car that nobody was around and the car was running. The thought never occurred to me to take it. though by your saying, all Germans would steal the car? Guess I will be sure to lock up my things if I ever visit there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling
Nor do I share your views regarding women or most anything else you wrote. But discussions with you never lead anywhere anyway So I'll just save a lot of time and leave it at that...
Neuling, YOU don't get it. I'm going to go thru this one last time.
1) Doing it "whenever" isn't enough. We all need to care for our environment every day.
2) I must have missed the memo about having to be a cop before you can speak up against wrongdoing.
3) How much of what you use or consume do YOU produce? Our family is at about 75%.
As for my barking up the wrong tree, I prefer to plant them thank you.
We all have made some contribution to messing up our world,some more than others. If you're not willing to help fix what you helped break then you have no right to complain when it doesn't work.
Just for the record,that last comment wasn't aimed at just you.
1) Whenever it is not possible, then obviously it is not possible. Nor do whenever possible and every day exclude each other.
2) Lol.
3) I live in a small apartment in the city, I don't have a garden, nor a balcony/terrace, so where do you suggest I produce stuff, assuming you mean food?
I lead a minimalist life without car, I don't go on vacation, I am vegetarian, I don't have a microwave/stove, I don't have a stereo, nor an AC (despite living in the hottest part of Portugal), I own as little material stuff as possible, etc. So with your last comment, whether aimed at me or not, you are definitely barking up the wrong tree.
I don't see how that is possible. Maybe you could explain in detail how for instance a weapon all of a sudden puts such bad thoughts into a persons head that were not there in the first place?
It might make someone who considers stealing a thief, but a person who considers stealing is already a thief. The action of taking can not exist without the desire to do so. An opportunity of theft to one may mean nothing to another. That saying condemns everyone as a theif already for it assumes that giving the opportunity, all will steal. That by the evaluation of simple logic is false. It is a generality, a fallacious belief.
For instance, just the other day I walked by a car that nobody was around and the car was running. The thought never occurred to me to take it. though by your saying, all Germans would steal the car? Guess I will be sure to lock up my things if I ever visit there.
Most sexists don't. /shrug
I don't have a problem with the mere existence of bad thoughts in people's heads, I can't prevent them anyway and I guess I would be shocked if I could read people's minds, I would probably have to keep a distance from 8/10 people. I only have a problem when they act according to their bad thoughts, which in turn can be triggered by the things they encounter.
The saying might simply mean that if there were nothing to be stolen, nobody would become a thief. It does not mean that everyone becomes a thief if given the opportunity to steal.
Call me a sexist, but I do think women are more compatible with the needs of a working, sustainable society than men are, although of course there are exceptions in both sexes.
Well, I don't see it that way at all. There is no self-hating involved, quite to the contrary, I like myself a lot and maybe a dozen fellow humans as well. Still, humans are what they are, just one more species among millions. And in view of their current numbers and actions more of a curse than a blessing to the Earth.
I don't think we should be human-centric, we do so many things that are not typical of animals, for instance love other species, which is totally unnatural. So why would I think in a human-centric way as if I were a lion or a shark.
Except for the dozen or so people mentioned above I like certain animals species more than humans. With animals there is a happiness when they like and interact with me, a happiness that is just missing with most humans, just the way it is missing with sharks or other beasts. Humans either like me, which is fine as I expect it anyway, or they are indifferent towards me, in which case I couldn't care less about them, or they don't like me, in which case of course I consider them idiots and enemies.
Funny comment. This planet that we are sitting on was made for man. All the animals on it were made for us as well as all the plant life on it. Man from the begining was given dominion over all the animals. I have yet to see an animal that could do what man can do, build what man can build, or create what man can create. It is true that God created all living things but he also gave all of it to us for our enjoyment. I am in no way suggesting as you seem to that we should have any kind of unnatural association with an animal. Animals for the most part are a food source, made to work such as a help around a farm or other means of work, help with hunting such as a hunting dog, or keeping a rodent population down, as a service animal, or as a companion animals. As a superior species or something that is even close to the man that is a subject that doesn't even relate to most thinking people.
Funny comment. This planet that we are sitting on was made for man. All the animals on it were made for us as well as all the plant life on it. Man from the begining was given dominion over all the animals. I have yet to see an animal that could do what man can do, build what man can build, or create what man can create. It is true that God created all living things but he also gave all of it to us for our enjoyment. I am in no way suggesting as you seem to that we should have any kind of unnatural association with an animal. Animals for the most part are a food source, made to work such as a help around a farm or other means of work, help with hunting such as a hunting dog, or keeping a rodent population down, as a service animal, or as a companion animals. As a superior species or something that is even close to the man that is a subject that doesn't even relate to most thinking people.
Since I am an atheist, I had better not answer, it would seem rude...
I don't have a problem with the mere existence of bad thoughts in people's heads, I can't prevent them anyway and I guess I would be shocked if I could read people's minds, I would probably have to keep a distance from 8/10 people. I only have a problem when they act according to their bad thoughts, which in turn can be triggered by the things they encounter.
I didn't ask if you had a problem with such, I merely asked how it was that an object could be the instigator of someones actions. The object isn't responsible, the person is. Don't you think it would be more appropriate to blame the individual rather than the object? I mean, that is what it goes back to. You said business was the cause, yet we find this not to be true, so then business causes nothing, it is the person who is the cause, more specifically, a person who has poor character. Business between people of good character does not result in the accusations you placed on business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling
The saying might simply mean that if there were nothing to be stolen, nobody would become a thief. It does not mean that everyone becomes a thief if given the opportunity to steal.
Maybe it is the translation, but by its statement using "makes", it is pretty clear. Regardless, the fact is that only the person makes them what they are. Unless ones hand is forced, the choice of every action committed is of the individual. Though I don't see how this explains business as causing people to be unethical and corrupt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling
Call me a sexist, but I do think women are more compatible with the needs of a working, sustainable society than men are, although of course there are exceptions in both sexes.
I didn't call you a sexist, I merely stated that most sexists believe one is superior over the other. You have no grounds to make the position you make, it is simply a subjective position based on emotional or limited experiences that have formed such an opinion.
As I said, most sexists, even racists share similar beliefs. /shrug
. This planet that we are sitting on was made for man. All the animals on it were made for us as well as all the plant life on it. Man from the begining was given dominion over all the animals.
Well, you had to know that when all the logic and science has been presented, someone will bring out "undisputable" religion argument.
*rolling eyes*
Yeah... Let's all just go by the world of the Bible, consume everything, pollute the world, eat everything in sight and pretend that everything is just fine and dandy. Puh-leeze. It's this delusional, man-centered thinking that gives me nightmares because thanks to this way of thinking my children and their children are going to suffer the effects of a poisoned earth.
As humans, we over consume. We over populate. We are ruining the planet. It can not withstand what we are doing at this rate. It won't be too long before even the sand that some of you have your heads buried in will be polluted.
Well, you had to know that when all the logic and science has been presented, someone will bring out "undisputable" religion argument.
*rolling eyes*
Yeah... Let's all just go by the world of the Bible, consume everything, pollute the world, eat everything in sight and pretend that everything is just fine and dandy. Puh-leeze. It's this delusional, man-centered thinking that gives me nightmares because thanks to this way of thinking my children and their children are going to suffer the effects of a poisoned earth.
As humans, we over consume. We over populate. We are ruining the planet. It can not withstand what we are doing at this rate. It won't be too long before even the sand that some of you have your heads buried in will be polluted.
Funny then how industry has only gotten cleaner, our cars and trucks are more cleaner and efficient than ever. If anything the small part of this planet that was poluted has gotten cleaner. I remember when LA was full of smog. Sure it still has some but not as much as back in the 1970's. As far as man centered thinking, the idea that man has destroyed this planet comes from men. I am amazed that so many have bought into the idea that people have poluted and messed up this planet.
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So I'll just save a lot of time and leave it at that...
