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Old 07-09-2010, 08:26 AM
 
2,672 posts, read 1,565,397 times
Reputation: 1924
A little common sense goes a long way.

If anyone wants to attempt to grasp why some of us place high significance on the health of our environment then look at the faces of the fishermen in the GOM whose boats sit docked. Listen to GOM residents voice's tremble as they begin to grasp that an entire culture may be changed or crushed for generations. Listen for the gunshot to the head of those who commit suicide because of the loss of a way of life; a break-down in their culture.

Do a search on the Tar Creek Superfund site. Look at the creek run red from the lead mining waste that was buried back in the 30's and 40's. The community's economy was booming back then, but what was the price for future generations? Loss of habitat; rancher's cattle who's legs were burned with acid that upwelled from the ground; contaminated groundwater; and children who lack intelligence because of the high levels of lead in their blood.

I'm glad I never saw the near extinction of buffalo simple because they were shot and killed for no reason other than to kill. I'm glad I never witnessed the fires on the Cuyohoga River. I wish I could have seen the salmon runs when the Klamath River was full of salmon. I wish I could see the many different species of colorful songbirds my dad told me of during his youth.

Yes, things change, but we don't have to accelerate that change when we have a choice.
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Old 07-09-2010, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
16,243 posts, read 22,156,849 times
Reputation: 12406
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohKnip View Post
You may want to do just a tiny bit a research before you claim things that you clearly have no ground on claiming. This LITERALLY took me about 10-15 seconds to pull up, its on the front page of PETA's website.

https://secure.peta.org/site/Advocac...Action&id=3186
I'd be much more interested in seeing PETA/HSUS (the same thing, really, if you follow the money and the personnel and the agenda) providing actual funds and hands on, get dirty, non-sound-bite/non-publicity-generating work to help the animals, in this and in other disasters, rather than sounding off on their website (what the heck do you expect them to do on a website intended for generating donations?) or swooping in for the publicity and then leaving the local shelters/actual workers holding, and paying for, the bag.

PETA is exactly the kind of group that gives environmentalists and animal welfare workers (the ones working in the trenches for both) a bad name. The people that I know who actually work for the welfare of animals spit when they hear PETA's name, and they're beginning to do so when they hear HSUS's name (something about the latter's ads that ask you to donate to help the poor, sad-eyed dogs and cats in the shelters, when less than 1/2 of 1%, per their tax forms, goes to shelters to help those animals - ads with film of lobbyists would be much more honest, plus using actual rescued animals to raise millions when a local shelter is actually doing/paying for the rescue, not to mention the RICO suit against HSUS, leaves a bad taste in the mouth).

It's organizations like those, and the people who blindly follow them because their emotions are so easily manipulated and feeling is easier than thinking, that are the answer to the OP's question. Whether it be trees or animals.
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Old 07-09-2010, 09:28 AM
 
6,387 posts, read 3,381,592 times
Reputation: 3593
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Lots of derogatory terms being thrown at people who have a respect for the planet and its environment,terms like tree huggers, eco terrorists, eco nazis,whacked out hippies etc. where did this attitude come from? Why would having concern for the well being of the planet we live on incur such hate and venom toward the people who do care? I dont get it
Groups like ELF certainly don't help project a warm and fuzzy feeling.
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Houston, TX
15,517 posts, read 15,166,852 times
Reputation: 13793
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimboburnsy View Post
I have never met an eco-terrorist either.

The other thing that I have never encountered in my wide array of energy industry contacts and dealings is anyone who has willfully violated the rules of an environmental regulatory authority.
I have met two, and they both went to the big house. Illegal dumping of wastewater. In one case they were fingered by a former employee with awareness of the activities.
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:37 AM
 
507 posts, read 474,450 times
Reputation: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
No, not at all. It is just one more example of why some environmentalists are viewed very poorly. Treat people poorly and what do you expect? There is not even any room for intellegent discussion when the accusation is thrown that people who do not agree 100% are moral cowards.
No one said anything about any 100 % of anything and theres always room for intelligent discussion.
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Old 07-09-2010, 11:32 AM
 
16,623 posts, read 13,778,459 times
Reputation: 11461
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Lots of derogatory terms being thrown at people who have a respect for the planet and its environment,terms like tree huggers, eco terrorists, eco nazis,whacked out hippies etc. where did this attitude come from? Why would having concern for the well being of the planet we live on incur such hate and venom toward the people who do care? I dont get it

environmentalism typically is in conflict with capitalism, and certain interpretations of libertarianism.

a guy who builds strip malls for a living, for example, typically doesn't want to hear about how his life's work causes excess stormwater runoff and water quality problems. in his mind he's just "trying to make an honest living."

a guy who wants to build a chemical plant somewhere, is probably going to get mad if you tell him that he can't "do what he wants with his property". If you argue that his chemical plant might affect the quality of public property, he'll probably just deny the science of your argument. if you argue that his chemical plant might affect other peoples' private property, he'll ask you to prove it (which is impossible to prove, of course, if it hasn't yet happened).
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Old 07-09-2010, 11:48 AM
 
29,990 posts, read 20,037,291 times
Reputation: 12345
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohKnip View Post
Would you rather die as a free man or die as a prisoner?
Comparing livestock to humans is highly innacurate and misleading. One cannot, with any credibilty transfer the human thought process onto market animals bred and born in captivity that have been released in an area that in no way resembles their natural habitat.

Sad part is this sub-forum is supposed to be about discussing "green" topics in a civil manner. Instead this thread reads more like that hate-filled sewage cast about over on the Politics forum.
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Old 07-09-2010, 11:50 AM
 
5,572 posts, read 7,992,474 times
Reputation: 5596
I think some people just "hate" anything that poses a threat to their current way of living. Some people are also quicker to "hate" things they don't understand than they are to try to understand the information presented before them.

If your career or liveliehood depends on something which goes against living sustainably, then chances are you will "hate" or at least strongly dislike and find ways to disagree with "treehuggers" and perhaps even other environmentalists.

I think a good example of this reason is how so many groups (coal miners, loggers, oil companies) try to spin the "no such thing as the ice caps melting" thing. Everybody knows it's happening, yet groups or people whose lifestyles would be threatened by immediate change for reasons of protecting the environment relish in wallowing in the denial of such science. So they do whatever they can to discredit the science and the facts and spin the "it's hogwash" story.

People feel safer in groups, too. So the louder they "hate" or try to disprove or deny what is happening, the more people they hope to get on their side. This is why I think it's still so popular and socially accepted to hate on treehuggers. It's a group-think mentality that is validated by fear-mongering.
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Old 07-09-2010, 11:55 AM
 
9,807 posts, read 6,001,848 times
Reputation: 8127
---fear mongering--

Like Al Gore admitting he exagerates in order for his points to have a stronger effect?
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
16,243 posts, read 22,156,849 times
Reputation: 12406
[quote=haggardhouseelf;14966981]I think some people just "hate" anything that poses a threat to their current way of living. Some people are also quicker to "hate" things they don't understand than they are to try to understand the information presented before them.

If your career or liveliehood depends on something which goes against living sustainably, then chances are you will "hate" or at least strongly dislike and find ways to disagree with "treehuggers" and perhaps even other environmentalists.

I think a good example of this reason is how so many groups (coal miners, loggers, oil companies) try to spin the "no such thing as the ice caps melting" thing. Everybody knows it's happening, yet groups or people whose lifestyles would be threatened by immediate change for reasons of protecting the environment relish in wallowing in the denial of such science. So they do whatever they can to discredit the science and the facts and spin the "it's hogwash" story.

People feel safer in groups, too. So the louder they "hate" or try to disprove or deny what is happening, the more people they hope to get on their side. This is why I think it's still so popular and socially accepted to hate on treehuggers. It's a group-think mentality that is validated by fear-mongering.[/quote]

I see this MUCH more among "tree huggers" or animal rights activists and certain kinds of environmentalists than I do among coal miners, loggers, oil companies. To the point that they frequently simply cannot put forth a reasoned argument, and anyone who does not swallow the party line hook, line, and sinker or who points out misbehavior on the part of this or that organization that is held in esteem by such (even if all that is pointed out is facts that are verifiable by an independent third party) is immediately described as an animal abuser, say, or someone who wants to destroy the environment. The old "attack the messenger, pray that that distracts attention from the facts" tactic in action.

It's not at all restricted to one side of the equation. And it's the same kind of impulse that leads to religious wars, when you get right down to it.
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