U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Green Living
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-09-2010, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Orlando, Florida
43,858 posts, read 43,569,222 times
Reputation: 58603

Advertisements

Truth is, the environmentalists have done a great deal of good for our country and are sometimes aren't appreciated as they should be. If it weren't for their diligence, who knows what shape our rivers, country side and air would be in.

At the same time, so many of these groups just go too far and become a cartoon in people's minds. As TexasHorseLady pointed out, PETA is a perfect example of an organization that has went so far with foolishness until their good points aren't even listened to any longer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-10-2010, 07:01 AM
 
Location: Richardson, TX
8,692 posts, read 11,425,206 times
Reputation: 3684
Quote:
Originally Posted by GloryB View Post
Truth is, the environmentalists have done a great deal of good for our country and are sometimes aren't appreciated as they should be. If it weren't for their diligence, who knows what shape our rivers, country side and air would be in.

At the same time, so many of these groups just go too far and become a cartoon in people's minds. As TexasHorseLady pointed out, PETA is a perfect example of an organization that has went so far with foolishness until their good points aren't even listened to any longer.
They are the NAACP of the environmental movement.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2010, 07:17 AM
 
9,807 posts, read 12,903,124 times
Reputation: 8127
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanTerra View Post
They are the NAACP of the environmental movement.
Black Panthers or ACORN would be a better analogy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2010, 07:20 AM
 
Location: Richardson, TX
8,692 posts, read 11,425,206 times
Reputation: 3684
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
Black Panthers or ACORN would be a better analogy.
Yeah, you're probably right. I was thinking more on the lines of last debacle with the NAACP and Hallmark. A little too eager and not thinking, and really looking for publicity.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2010, 12:35 PM
 
Location: North Phoenix
1,128 posts, read 1,405,692 times
Reputation: 687
There will always be people who riducule others who are trying to do good, because either they don't care and are mean spirited, or they are ignorant of the situation of the planet, or they do hear about some groups that do go too far and group everyone together w/o really researching it.
I do not label myself, but I do care for th planet and do my best to help and try to educate others and reycling , endangered animals, etc.
I do suppport Sea Shepard Conservatory, although many hate them and call them eco terrorists ( although they save whales being illegally hunted in a part of the ocean that is a sanctuary). I hate when people litter, and I will ask them why they throw garbage out in the street or wherever when there are such a thing as garbage cans, and they look at me and ask "or your one of those people?"
Anyways, I just think people need to understand more before labeling others,as with anything. People who care for the planet do care about people. I do not want my grandchildren growing up and not ever being able to see marine life becuase it's died out from hunting and pollution, or there being a shortage of oxygen because the rain forrest is being demolished (and those trees cannot be replaced).If anything I wish I could do more to care for this planet.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2010, 01:05 PM
 
29,988 posts, read 35,855,551 times
Reputation: 12719
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixscorpiogirl View Post
There will always be people who riducule others who are trying to do good, because either they don't care and are mean spirited, or they are ignorant of the situation of the planet, or they do hear about some groups that do go too far and group everyone together w/o really researching it.
I do not label myself, but I do care for th planet and do my best to help and try to educate others and reycling , endangered animals, etc.
I do suppport Sea Shepard Conservatory, although many hate them and call them eco terrorists ( although they save whales being illegally hunted in a part of the ocean that is a sanctuary). I hate when people litter, and I will ask them why they throw garbage out in the street or wherever when there are such a thing as garbage cans, and they look at me and ask "or your one of those people?"
Anyways, I just think people need to understand more before labeling others,as with anything. People who care for the planet do care about people. I do not want my grandchildren growing up and not ever being able to see marine life becuase it's died out from hunting and pollution, or there being a shortage of oxygen because the rain forrest is being demolished (and those trees cannot be replaced).If anything I wish I could do more to care for this planet.
And that is indeed the key. Many of us do care for the environment, do recycle, cut back on energy consumption/waste, drive hybrids, generate some of our own residential power or actively investigating it.

Unfortunaltely, unless one is in lock-step with those who buy into man-made global warming and all the legislation in the name of "the environment" we are also labled as "uncaring" or "moral cowards".

Moderation in all things........
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2010, 01:10 PM
 
Location: The Woods
16,455 posts, read 21,473,314 times
Reputation: 8412
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixscorpiogirl View Post
There will always be people who riducule others who are trying to do good, because either they don't care and are mean spirited, or they are ignorant of the situation of the planet, or they do hear about some groups that do go too far and group everyone together w/o really researching it.
I do not label myself, but I do care for th planet and do my best to help and try to educate others and reycling , endangered animals, etc.
I do suppport Sea Shepard Conservatory, although many hate them and call them eco terrorists ( although they save whales being illegally hunted in a part of the ocean that is a sanctuary). I hate when people litter, and I will ask them why they throw garbage out in the street or wherever when there are such a thing as garbage cans, and they look at me and ask "or your one of those people?"
Anyways, I just think people need to understand more before labeling others,as with anything. People who care for the planet do care about people. I do not want my grandchildren growing up and not ever being able to see marine life becuase it's died out from hunting and pollution, or there being a shortage of oxygen because the rain forrest is being demolished (and those trees cannot be replaced).If anything I wish I could do more to care for this planet.
A) Sea Shepherd are terrorists by definition (using force to impose their ideology on others, whether it's dangerously ramming ships, throwing acid, launching acid soaked projectiles from spud guns, throwing hooks at tuna fishermen, breaking up ice under people's feet with a ship...).

B) Paul Watson is on Interpol's wanted list for precisely that reason

C) the whaling is perfectly legal, even if you disagree with it, and the IWC even participates in issuing the permits to take whales; it's a "loophole" if you wish to call it such, but placed there quite intentionally, and legal.

D) the Antarctic Treaty eliminates all claims of signatories to Antarctica, eliminating Australian claims to the waters

E) as that "sanctuary" does not apply to whaling done under IWC scientific permits, as Japan whales under, it does not apply to them

F) the IWC is entirely voluntary and member states may choose to lodge protests and not be bound by decisions, as Norway and Iceland have.

G) the trees in the rain forests do indeed grow back relatively well, when selectively logged. It's the procedure used to clear the land through burning that has caused issues

H) sustainable hunting will not wipe out species

I) supporting the extremists is precisely why the environmental movement gets discredited by others
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2010, 03:16 PM
dgz
 
800 posts, read 2,916,628 times
Reputation: 670
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixscorpiogirl View Post
There will always be people who riducule others who are trying to do good, because either they don't care and are mean spirited, or they are ignorant of the situation of the planet, or they do hear about some groups that do go too far and group everyone together w/o really researching it.
I do not label myself, but I do care for th planet and do my best to help and try to educate others and reycling , endangered animals, etc.
I do suppport Sea Shepard Conservatory, although many hate them and call them eco terrorists ( although they save whales being illegally hunted in a part of the ocean that is a sanctuary). I hate when people litter, and I will ask them why they throw garbage out in the street or wherever when there are such a thing as garbage cans, and they look at me and ask "or your one of those people?"
Anyways, I just think people need to understand more before labeling others,as with anything. People who care for the planet do care about people. I do not want my grandchildren growing up and not ever being able to see marine life becuase it's died out from hunting and pollution, or there being a shortage of oxygen because the rain forrest is being demolished (and those trees cannot be replaced).If anything I wish I could do more to care for this planet.
I agree with Sea Shepherd too. There will be no whales left if someone does not stop the commercial whaling--which is now, I think, being done only by Japan and Norway; it is illegal everywhere else. And what Japan is allowing is not exactly 'legal.' They are allowing the use of 'research vessels' to kill whales saying it is for 'research purposes', when in fact, the whales are being killed for food and other products.

And yes, even if one has no compassion for the suffering of other feeling and thinking animals, they should consider the pragmatic argument that a future population of 12-15 billion people with no fish in the ocean and fewer species left on the planet will not fare well for one's own progeny. Like any species that reproduces beyond the amount of resources that the environment can sustain, it's possible that a large 'die off' of people could occur. Who wants a future like that? There are too many people on the planet to continue doing things 'the way they've always been done.'
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2010, 04:21 PM
 
Location: North Phoenix
1,128 posts, read 1,405,692 times
Reputation: 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
A) Sea Shepherd are terrorists by definition (using force to impose their ideology on others, whether it's dangerously ramming ships, throwing acid, launching acid soaked projectiles from spud guns, throwing hooks at tuna fishermen, breaking up ice under people's feet with a ship...).

B) Paul Watson is on Interpol's wanted list for precisely that reason

C) the whaling is perfectly legal, even if you disagree with it, and the IWC even participates in issuing the permits to take whales; it's a "loophole" if you wish to call it such, but placed there quite intentionally, and legal.

D) the Antarctic Treaty eliminates all claims of signatories to Antarctica, eliminating Australian claims to the waters

E) as that "sanctuary" does not apply to whaling done under IWC scientific permits, as Japan whales under, it does not apply to them

F) the IWC is entirely voluntary and member states may choose to lodge protests and not be bound by decisions, as Norway and Iceland have.

G) the trees in the rain forests do indeed grow back relatively well, when selectively logged. It's the procedure used to clear the land through burning that has caused issues

H) sustainable hunting will not wipe out species

I) supporting the extremists is precisely why the environmental movement gets discredited by others
The japanese claim that they kill whales for scientific research is a bunch of BS...do they really need to kill 1000 whales a year to study?
I do not agree that Sea Shepards are terrorists, they are merely disrupting the whalers efforts. The acid you speak of isn't the skin eating acid people may think of but butyric acid which is foul smelling and what SS uses to disrupt the whale killers. It is not something they use to harm people.
If anyone is a terrorrist it's the people who go around killing these magnificent intelligent and socialable marine animals in such a brutal fashion! just because the Japanese or Norwegians didn't agree to the whale treaty doesn't make it right.
And it isn't just the killing of whales that SS is against, it's also the killing of dolphins, seals, and the long line fishing that tortures and kills thousands of marine life yearly.
I'm sorry you feel you need to defend the people who torture and kill these animals....but I feel it's just wrong. I don't care the about technicalities that people use to defend them, just as a human who kills another and gets off due to a technicality. ITS WRONG.
I fully support Sea Shhepard and all the people who volunteer their time and money.
Oh, and the only ship that was "rammed" 9and sunk) was the Ady Gil (not technically a ship, more like a speedboat) by a Japanese whaling ship that almost killed the Ady Gil crew.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2010, 05:16 PM
 
Location: The Woods
16,455 posts, read 21,473,314 times
Reputation: 8412
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixscorpiogirl View Post
The japanese claim that they kill whales for scientific research is a bunch of BS...do they really need to kill 1000 whales a year to study?
I do not agree that Sea Shepards are terrorists, they are merely disrupting the whalers efforts. The acid you speak of isn't the skin eating acid people may think of but butyric acid which is foul smelling and what SS uses to disrupt the whale killers. It is not something they use to harm people.
If anyone is a terrorrist it's the people who go around killing these magnificent intelligent and socialable marine animals in such a brutal fashion! just because the Japanese or Norwegians didn't agree to the whale treaty doesn't make it right.
And it isn't just the killing of whales that SS is against, it's also the killing of dolphins, seals, and the long line fishing that tortures and kills thousands of marine life yearly.
I'm sorry you feel you need to defend the people who torture and kill these animals....but I feel it's just wrong. I don't care the about technicalities that people use to defend them, just as a human who kills another and gets off due to a technicality. ITS WRONG.
I fully support Sea Shhepard and all the people who volunteer their time and money.
Oh, and the only ship that was "rammed" 9and sunk) was the Ady Gil (not technically a ship, more like a speedboat) by a Japanese whaling ship that almost killed the Ady Gil crew.
MSDS on butyric acid: http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Butyric_acid-9923216

Hardly a safe chemical.

The "ban" is a moratorium not a permanent ban. A temporary halt to take stock of the whale populations before resuming whaling. The IWC was set up to ensure sustainable commercial whaling; the Soviets making false reports and not obeying the regulations they claimed to be threw everything off.

Your opinion is not law. You have no right to force your views and culture on another nation and to destroy their culture. What the Japanese, Norwegians and Icelanders, as well as many other peoples, are doing is perfectly legal. And if you want to change their minds about what they're doing you don't accomplish it with eco-terrorism; sea shepherd has increased support for whaling in Japan. Minke whales are quite abundant, BTW.


The Farley Mowat (sea shepherd vessel) was seized by Canada because it violated the law and nearly killed some seal hunters by getting too close to the ice they were standing on (and in their heavy clothing, they likely would have drowned):

RCMP seizes seal hunt protest ship - thestar.com

They admit to sinking various ships. Watson claims to have pioneered tree spiking, which has maimed many loggers.



This photo here, number 12, shows, right in the steve irwin, a list of ships they claim to have rammed and sunk: Sea Shepherd Society Photos - Whale Wars Photos - The Daily Green

There was also a list painted on the hull of the ship but they painted over that recently.

On top of that, I've watched whale wars, and have seen them intentionally ram ships many times.

This video is evidence of that, clearly showing the steve irwin ramming a ship, contradicting what watson said about the incident:
YouTube - Sea Shepherd Captain Lies about Collision with Whaling Ship

Video evidence also contradicts what watson said about the ady gil, and, on top of that, it's legal to simply kill "pirates" or terrorists on the open seas like them, the Japanese have shown restraint. Bethune pleaded guilty to all but one charge against him, and was convicted on all charges.

Trying to destroy a prop (prop fouler) in the antarctic is akin to attempted murder, in those dangerous seas, as well.

Your posts are precisely what people are referring to here about extremists. Condoning these sorts of terrorists.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Green Living
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top