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Old 07-10-2010, 05:25 PM
 
Location: South Florida
89 posts, read 154,534 times
Reputation: 91

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When you figure that one out tell me I'd like to know. I also am referred to at times as a tree hugger and my resonse is someone has to do it. I was at work telling my coworkers about the birds that come to my backyard feeder. One of the young girls in her twenties said she and her friend sit on the back porch and shoot their pellet guns at Boat Tail Grackles. I asked why she did this and her response was; WELL THERE ARE SO MANY OF THEM and we were bored. Can anyone be that bored? I mean get a life.
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Old 07-10-2010, 05:25 PM
 
2,671 posts, read 2,705,251 times
Reputation: 1979
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
And that is indeed the key. Many of us do care for the environment, do recycle, cut back on energy consumption/waste, drive hybrids, generate some of our own residential power or actively investigating it.

Unfortunaltely, unless one is in lock-step with those who buy into man-made global warming and all the legislation in the name of "the environment" we are also labled as "uncaring" or "moral cowards".

Moderation in all things........
My primary guiding principle in life is to seek balance, which if very near 'moderation in all things.' Everything on this planet is in a state of seeking equilibrium.

I don't see those who disagree with some of the environmental issues as uncaring. Some are, some are not. I do believe most people tend to believe what best suits their agenda.

I'll pass on climate change for this thread. It's too huge an issue, but at this point, the scientific evidence strongly favors that CC is happening and that mankinds actions are accelerating CC that to not believe it is a kin to those who refused to believe the world was not flat. Something else the Christians were wrong about. Again, people tend to believe what best suits their agenda.
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Old 07-10-2010, 06:40 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
19,879 posts, read 36,385,911 times
Reputation: 21312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecovlke View Post
My primary guiding principle in life is to seek balance, which if very near 'moderation in all things.' Everything on this planet is in a state of seeking equilibrium.

I don't see those who disagree with some of the environmental issues as uncaring. Some are, some are not. I do believe most people tend to believe what best suits their agenda.

I'll pass on climate change for this thread. It's too huge an issue, but at this point, the scientific evidence strongly favors that CC is happening and that mankinds actions are accelerating CC that to not believe it is a kin to those who refused to believe the world was not flat. Something else the Christians were wrong about. Again, people tend to believe what best suits their agenda.
And yet, the environmentalists that are being referred to in this particular case (the ones that give all the others a bad name and insist that everyone walk in lockstep and believe what THEY believe) will not acknowledge that their beliefs (including global warming - climate change, however, is pretty much a fact and has been a fact since long before humans were around to have any impact whatsoever) are agenda-driven.
Or even, for that matter, that they are beliefs, in many cases, not facts.

Then, they want to make excuses for behavior such as that outlined above regarding the Sea Shepherd, for PETA, for HSUS, apparently believing that "the end justifies the means" and that their beliefs must be supported by forcing everyone else to share them in every detail (or at least be forced to act as if they do) ; apparently those beliefs can't stand alone.
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Old 07-10-2010, 07:03 PM
 
9,960 posts, read 11,811,280 times
Reputation: 13278
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomcome1 View Post
Maybe because like many so-called "causes", they become beholden to Liberals, no matter what the cost to others. Take the oil spill, where are the protests? Where is PETA standing up for the oil soaked animals? Where are the tree hugger's decrying the natural diaster that this oil spill is? Where are the DC protests by the tens of thousands over this? Where are they? They are sitting on their asses, because we have a Democrat in office. It's so funny to watch them get "organized" when a Republican is in office, but when a Democrat is in office, it's, "time to be quiet time"......
I think it's the arrogance.


YouTube - Extreme Tree Huggers
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Old 07-10-2010, 07:37 PM
 
24,718 posts, read 26,785,278 times
Reputation: 22714
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohKnip View Post
So do I when I'm 98. Well maybe not, I'd rather be gone before I have to be on any serious life system.


Red: How many people have died recently (this year) from coal mine cave ins, oil rig explosions, oil refinery explosions (Near seattle), more coal mine cave ins/explosions. How many people die each year because they were working in the mines all there life and have developed black lung because they were breathing nothing but coal down there for the most part? I'm willing to bet many more people than those who die solely because they didn't have air conditioning.
A lot fewer people die from these things that the stuff people do to themselves, like smoking & eating unhealthy food.

I haven't checked, but I'm pretty willing to bet the death rates from the causes you list have dropped quite a bit in the last 50 years.
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Old 07-10-2010, 07:51 PM
 
24,718 posts, read 26,785,278 times
Reputation: 22714
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
And that is indeed the key. Many of us do care for the environment, do recycle, cut back on energy consumption/waste, drive hybrids, generate some of our own residential power or actively investigating it.

Unfortunaltely, unless one is in lock-step with those who buy into man-made global warming and all the legislation in the name of "the environment" we are also labled as "uncaring" or "moral cowards".

Moderation in all things........
Thank you for saying this!

I live in a studio apartment. I live a block away from my job and walk to work every day. I drive my car only a few times a week and would love to ditch it if we had decent mass transit.

But I think global warming (or at least the idea that it's man made) is a scam for 1. making money 2. I think global warming is being used as a vehicle to erode the sovereignty of nations by international organizations like the UN. It's essentially being used as an issue to grab more power by the international elite (as so many issues are--if one issue doesn't stick, they find another).

But I guess since I don't follow the party line, I must be uncaring.
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Old 07-10-2010, 08:03 PM
dgz
 
800 posts, read 2,916,093 times
Reputation: 670
How far do you let something go though and not get involved? How far do you watch things descend? Although I'm not advocating breaking the law, consider how many things there are that we take for granted today that were once the cultural norm and 'legal.' It was legal for a long time to be able to beat your wife as long as you didn't use a board thicker than your thumb. Who caused that to change? Slavery was once an accepted cultural norm. What about the people who broke the law by hiding slaves (i.e., not returning 'private property' to the owners)? I come from a culture that used to see fox hunting as a 'sport'? Then it was legal and celebrated. Now it is illegal. There are good and bad things in every culture, and if something is bad, it should be reconsidered. If a cultural practice is self-destructive such as wiping out species of animals, how long do we wait for one or two countries to 'come around'? Until all the whales are gone? And their actions do not affect a corner of Japan or Norway, they affect the entire planet.
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Old 07-10-2010, 08:38 PM
dgz
 
800 posts, read 2,916,093 times
Reputation: 670
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
And that is indeed the key. Many of us do care for the environment, do recycle, cut back on energy consumption/waste, drive hybrids, generate some of our own residential power or actively investigating it.

Unfortunaltely, unless one is in lock-step with those who buy into man-made global warming and all the legislation in the name of "the environment" we are also labled as "uncaring" or "moral cowards".

Moderation in all things........
Often the measures proposed for addressing global warming have added environmental benefits for improving air and water quality as well as fuel efficiency. For example, in my area, there have been persistent concerns about proposals for additional coal plants. From a global warming perspective, there were concerns about excessive CO2 emissions. From a pollution perspective, the coal plants would've increased the Mercury, NOx and SOx emissions. Fortunately concerns were discussed from both perspectives.
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Old 07-10-2010, 08:53 PM
 
Location: The Woods
16,455 posts, read 21,469,319 times
Reputation: 8410
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgz View Post
How far do you let something go though and not get involved? How far do you watch things descend? Although I'm not advocating breaking the law, consider how many things there are that we take for granted today that were once the cultural norm and 'legal.' It was legal for a long time to be able to beat your wife as long as you didn't use a board thicker than your thumb. Who caused that to change? Slavery was once an accepted cultural norm. What about the people who broke the law by hiding slaves (i.e., not returning 'private property' to the owners)? I come from a culture that used to see fox hunting as a 'sport'? Then it was legal and celebrated. Now it is illegal. There are good and bad things in every culture, and if something is bad, it should be reconsidered. If a cultural practice is self-destructive such as wiping out species of animals, how long do we wait for one or two countries to 'come around'? Until all the whales are gone? And their actions do not affect a corner of Japan or Norway, they affect the entire planet.
There'd be more merit to this argument if the whales were endangered, but they're not now. Minke whales are abundant. Nearly every whale species is recovering or already has. Out of a population of at least 3/4 a million minke whales, which breed rather quickly, taking under 1,000 a year is not a danger to them. The anti-whaling movement is based more on feelings than sound science. Hunting some whale species absolutely should not be tolerates, hunting abundant ones in a sustainable manner, will cause no problems.

Ironically, the species in the most danger are various animals, especially predators incl. big cats, etc., in countries like Russia, China and a few other places, and little is being done about them.
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Old 07-12-2010, 12:15 AM
 
Location: North Phoenix
1,128 posts, read 1,405,481 times
Reputation: 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
MSDS on butyric acid: http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Butyric_acid-9923216

Hardly a safe chemical.

The "ban" is a moratorium not a permanent ban. A temporary halt to take stock of the whale populations before resuming whaling. The IWC was set up to ensure sustainable commercial whaling; the Soviets making false reports and not obeying the regulations they claimed to be threw everything off.

Your opinion is not law. You have no right to force your views and culture on another nation and to destroy their culture. What the Japanese, Norwegians and Icelanders, as well as many other peoples, are doing is perfectly legal. And if you want to change their minds about what they're doing you don't accomplish it with eco-terrorism; sea shepherd has increased support for whaling in Japan. Minke whales are quite abundant, BTW.


The Farley Mowat (sea shepherd vessel) was seized by Canada because it violated the law and nearly killed some seal hunters by getting too close to the ice they were standing on (and in their heavy clothing, they likely would have drowned):

RCMP seizes seal hunt protest ship - thestar.com

They admit to sinking various ships. Watson claims to have pioneered tree spiking, which has maimed many loggers.



This photo here, number 12, shows, right in the steve irwin, a list of ships they claim to have rammed and sunk: Sea Shepherd Society Photos - Whale Wars Photos - The Daily Green

There was also a list painted on the hull of the ship but they painted over that recently.

On top of that, I've watched whale wars, and have seen them intentionally ram ships many times.

This video is evidence of that, clearly showing the steve irwin ramming a ship, contradicting what watson said about the incident:
YouTube - Sea Shepherd Captain Lies about Collision with Whaling Ship

Video evidence also contradicts what watson said about the ady gil, and, on top of that, it's legal to simply kill "pirates" or terrorists on the open seas like them, the Japanese have shown restraint. Bethune pleaded guilty to all but one charge against him, and was convicted on all charges.

Trying to destroy a prop (prop fouler) in the antarctic is akin to attempted murder, in those dangerous seas, as well.

Your posts are precisely what people are referring to here about extremists. Condoning these sorts of terrorists.
I think the main point is that people should be environmentally smarter and friendly to the earth, animals, sea creatures and each other.
I don't know how anyone can defend people that kill and torture animals to make a profit...it saddens me greatly to see anything be killed in such a way. Japan knows its wrong, why else woould they lie and say they are only doing it for reasearch?
Whales and dolphins have a very long gestational period, when their numbers dwindle it's not like they reproduce in the same way dogs and cats do. Thank God there are countries that do choose to not take part in whaling, if they didn't and everyone did as they want because as you said "we cannot force them to change there culture" all the animals would be gone as was the case with the Buffalo almost being wiped out!
There are many whales and Dolphins being hunted that are endangered, check out the site:

www.takepart.com/thecove
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