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Old 07-21-2010, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Interior AK
4,729 posts, read 8,611,330 times
Reputation: 3358

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Look, Cornell University (yes, I cite them a lot) states in their official position statement regarding raw milk and advocating pastuerization that the biggest improvement in safety of milk came from understanding the disease risks, educating producers and consumers about those risks, and instating proper sanitation and hygiene practices. In the list of the 4 changes responsible for improvement milk safety since the 1900's, pasteurization is last. The largest improvements were recorded when proper hygiene and sanitation were observed. This defeats the argument that ONLY pasteurization makes milk safe for consumption.

 
Old 07-21-2010, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Interior AK
4,729 posts, read 8,611,330 times
Reputation: 3358
By the laws of system dynamics, the more complex a system is the more points of failure are introduced into that system. With each increase in the number of failure points within a system, the risks of failure increases exponentially.

While complex systems can offer us redundancies during these failures in truly industrial systems, agricultural is not a truly industrial system no matter how much we humans try and force Nature to comply.

Because our food system has become so complex and distributed, an incident that once would only affect a limited area or a limited sector of the market can now affect a global area and unlimited sectors of the market.

Food safety is a myth because nothing you consume can ever be 100% safe. Something have greater or lesser risk, but safety is an illusion. The illusion of safety helps us cope with the fact that life is a fatal condition... no one gets out alive! Additionally, food safety within the context of this debate (about government regulation) is a myth because people still get sick and die from food-bourne illnesses every year despite our supposedly "safe" food system... and new diseases have been created or have been reported in species that have never been affected in the past. The problems that many of these regulations are attempting to resolve are problems the system itself has created or exacerbated.
 
Old 07-21-2010, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,440 posts, read 31,635,036 times
Reputation: 15560
^ Very well thought out, insightful, intelligent posts.
And non-hysterical, too, I might add.
Thank you for bringing in the reasoned voice of logic into what has been so hotly, and vociferously, denied.
 
Old 07-21-2010, 09:51 PM
 
Location: Interior AK
4,729 posts, read 8,611,330 times
Reputation: 3358
LOL -- I practice my Forum "Serenity Prayer" on a regular basis
 
Old 07-21-2010, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,440 posts, read 31,635,036 times
Reputation: 15560
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingAll4Seasons View Post
LOL -- I practice my Forum "Serenity Prayer" on a regular basis
Good idea, I fear that I am not that highly evolved....yet.
 
Old 07-21-2010, 10:06 PM
 
Location: Interior AK
4,729 posts, read 8,611,330 times
Reputation: 3358
Quote:
Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
Good idea, I fear that I am not that highly evolved....yet.
It takes A LOT of practice. I admit that being married to someone who enjoys debating for the simple sake of debating has helped me learn how to remain calmer Not starting with the assumption that you are absolutely right, or having the desire "to win at all costs" helps too... but that takes even more practice

I admit there are days when I find it difficult not to flame out and tell someone that they are a bleeping idiot with less intelligence and common sense than a hibernating hamster. Those are the days I close the laptop and go do yardwork to work off some frustration.
 
Old 07-22-2010, 05:05 AM
 
9,807 posts, read 13,408,924 times
Reputation: 8158
Food safety--------are the confirmed cases of children getting sick by contracting e-coli coming from drinking raw milk or pasteurized milk ?

Since the vast majority of kids drink pasteurized milk, isn't it strang the cases of confirmed e-coli have come from the small minority of kids drinking raw milk ?
 
Old 07-22-2010, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Nort Seid
5,288 posts, read 7,587,419 times
Reputation: 2453
This has been a great conversation, thanks to everyone taking the time to explain the details- as a city-dweller this "raw milk" concept was completely foreign to me. I have visited dairy farms before, but I don't recall this coming up.

I try and purchase Organic Valley Coop milk, they got great rankings here:

The Cornucopia Institute

And I think some of their farmers are involved in this - it is definitely a big business vs little business thing best I can tell.
 
Old 07-22-2010, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,440 posts, read 31,635,036 times
Reputation: 15560
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
Food safety--------are the confirmed cases of children getting sick by contracting e-coli coming from drinking raw milk or pasteurized milk ?

Since the vast majority of kids drink pasteurized milk, isn't it strang the cases of confirmed e-coli have come from the small minority of kids drinking raw milk ?
Post some links corroborating your claims, or zip it.
 
Old 07-22-2010, 09:13 AM
 
9,807 posts, read 13,408,924 times
Reputation: 8158
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhZone View Post
Raids are increasing on farms and private food-supply clubs—here are 5 tips for surviving one | Grist

Natural food is getting harder and harder to get.
I can understand having inspections to determine if the property and products are clean and free from toxins, but really must they do this sort of thing?

Why exactly can we not buy unpasturized milk if we chooze to.

It is still OK for commercial growers to souse their fields with tons of pesticides and fungacides, much of which remains in and on the produce and CANNOT be washed off. They can inject hormones in to cattle and feed it to the chickens and that's OK too. Yet these farmers who want to raise a Natural product are harrassed constantly.
Why?

And really why do they take computers?
What exactly do they look for there?
And having done this and examined them why do they not give them back?

Why should I provide links ?

The OP has a link that you didn't even bother reading ( and about which this threasd is based)

If you won't take the time to read a link in the OP, why should I bother posting links?


9th paragraph of the OP's link.
Read it before you ask for more links that you refuse to read .
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