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Old 07-19-2010, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,440 posts, read 31,631,836 times
Reputation: 15560

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Marmac, you sure arent winning any friends or influencing people here, so whats your point?
Nobody is listening.......

 
Old 07-19-2010, 04:00 PM
 
2,413 posts, read 2,640,859 times
Reputation: 2031
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
Let me give you the other side of the story.

This, also, has been in the news recently involving Minnesota farmers.

Minnesota's law states sale of raw milk is permitted under the following conditions-----

#1----for ocassional use
#2---the consumer must pick it up at the farm and bring their own containers.

A problem resulted when a Gibbon MN dairy farmer was selling raw milk to a neighborhood in Minneapolis where one person would pick up the milk from the farm and then divide it up to other members in his garage in Minneapolis.

A clear violation of Minnesota law !

When 4 cases of kids sick with e-coli were traced back to the raw milk from that Minnesota farm,the investigations started.

The gullible raw milk buyers refused to beliebe that the raw milk they were buying was harmfull.
Maybe they shoul;d have researched where that Gibbon MN used to sell his milk.

If they did, they would have discovered he used to sell his milk to an organic processor until the state of MN pulled his permit and the organic processor already had rejected the milk because of poor farm inspection scores and high bacteria counts of his dairy farm milk.

In desperation, he found a new maket-------gullible raw milk buyers from Minneapolis.

The state of Minnesota was doing their job when they tracedc e-coli back to his farm !
And your point? So what? If kids get sick it's their damn parents fault. If people are stupid and drink crappy raw milk ITS THEIR FAULT! I'm an avid raw milk drinker and I know EXACTLY where it comes from and the health of the cows and actually how much coliform and bacteria are in the milk I drink. And I'd like for you to prove that the E.coli actually came from the raw milk. Do you have the lab results yourself? It's extremely rare to get e.coli from raw milk. At least high quality raw milk i.e. grass fed cows etc. People are stupid nowadays whether government intervenes or not. You don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Or maybe people like you do.
 
Old 07-19-2010, 04:11 PM
 
9,807 posts, read 13,407,272 times
Reputation: 8158
Minnesota State Health Dept traced the cause of kids getting sick with confirmed cases of e-coli back to that farm.

Naive raw milk buyers ,like monkeys, cover their eyes and ears and refuse to believe it.

If e-coli was traced back to a beef packing plant, you folks would be posting all about it.

Like brainwashed " lemmings", they believe everything some " kook" sites on the internet proclaim.




----at least high quality raw milk "---

do you have the quality tested?





Even organic processors won't buy raw milk from their producers unless a test sample is pulled every time milk leaves that farm. This is despite the fact a farmer who sells organic milk had to meet many criteria to be certified organic.


--------you sure aren't winning any friends---
not my desire !

I tell the truth and expose lies !
 
Old 07-19-2010, 04:17 PM
 
4,549 posts, read 9,724,310 times
Reputation: 3872
I'll have to admit, I never really gave this much thought until the incident in our town. I guess I have the feeling that people should have the choice. If they are aware of the risk and are willing to take it, then so be it. It's just so hard on children because of their immune systems, but that's a choice they can make.

The following statement though also really got me to thinking:

Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
I think you should as long as all the products are clearly marked. That's where the problem begins, Mom buys unpasteurized milk, Mom makes goodies with bad milk. 20 kids get sick at a party.... We can send the producer to jail for not clearly marking their product but what do you do with the "Mom" when 20 kids get sick?
Trying to think how I would feel if I my son was still small, went over to a friends house and the mother gave him a glass of raw milk and he ended up hospitalized. I'm not going to lie - I'd be pissed.

I actually grew up drinking raw milk. I personally don't prefer it, but that personal taste.

My 16 year old son is also working on a small organic farm this summer (they don't have milk there - just vegetables and chickens, sheep). It has been an incredible learning experience for him. He loves the job and hopes to work there next summer as well. To see what all goes into it, what hard work it is to do organic farming, to learn about food he never heard of before, to eat it right from the ground....it's been priceless for him.
 
Old 07-19-2010, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Florida
741 posts, read 1,382,574 times
Reputation: 1168
I still have to wonder where all this e-coli is coming from.
As I said my grandfather had 6 cow, they had been inspected for TB and had the tags in their ears. When the cows were milked - by hand - they were not washed, only brushed off if there appeared to be anything on them. Sometimes the milk in the pails had flecks of dark stuff on top of the foam when he carried them to the house. He had no refrigerator. The milk was put into a separator and had clean filters. The bottled milk was put into a tank that was partly in the ground, with cool water in it, which was outside. No one got sick in all the years he sold milk - maybe 20. Likewise for the eggs that we ate and some we sold. Free range chickens these - they were all over the barnyard, no doubt eating cow pies.
So how is it that now we have all these stringent cleanliness and sterilization standards and now there is all this e-coli?
 
Old 07-19-2010, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,440 posts, read 31,631,836 times
Reputation: 15560
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
Minnesota State Health Dept traced the cause of kids getting sick with confirmed cases of e-coli back to that farm.

Naive raw milk buyers ,like monkeys, cover their eyes and ears and refuse to believe it.

If e-coli was traced back to a beef packing plant, you folks would be posting all about it.

Like brainwashed " lemmings", they believe everything some " kook" sites on the internet proclaim.




----at least high quality raw milk "---

do you have the quality tested?





Even organic processors won't buy raw milk from their producers unless a test sample is pulled every time milk leaves that farm. This is despite the fact a farmer who sells organic milk had to meet many criteria to be certified organic.


--------you sure aren't winning any friends---
not my desire !

I tell the truth and expose lies !
Your posts sound a bit unhinged.

"The Florida Department of Health is aware of only one person in the state getting sick from raw milk and the Alachua County health department's chief epidemiologist said she has never heard of a case of a person getting sick in the county."
This was pulled out of the local paper.
 
Old 07-20-2010, 12:10 AM
 
Location: Interior AK
4,729 posts, read 8,610,611 times
Reputation: 3358
Quote:
Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
I buy raw milk form a local, and have for quite a few years, never a problem.
So what are the feds gonna get their panties in a bunch about next?
Our gardens? Our eggs and cheese? That we produce for ourselves?
Thats where I see this heading.
Some of the comments after the article were VERY enlightening.
Hate to break it to ya, but in some states they already have!!

King Co. WA mandated that I had to remove my own personal (raised bed) garden from the only sunny part of my yard because it was over my septic leach field. This was my garden, for my own personal consumption only, in a raised bed, that just happened to be over top of my own septic leach field that I maintained religiously... and I was given 7 days to demolish it or else be heavily fined for "public endangerment". The only possible "public" that I was endangering were myself and my husband... and it was our poop in the tank to being with, if we got sick from something in it that would mean we were already sick to begin with!

And in other jurisdictions, you can only keep a certain number of chickens as "pets"... if you have too many, regardless of zoning, they can come after you for "intent to sell". Sure, you can fight it if you can prove that you weren't going to illegally sell the eggs or meat... but really, what happened to innocent until proven guilty?
 
Old 07-20-2010, 12:47 AM
 
39,190 posts, read 40,571,673 times
Reputation: 16071
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingAll4Seasons View Post
King Co. WA mandated that I had to remove my own personal (raised bed) garden from the only sunny part of my yard because it was over my septic leach field. This was my garden, for my own personal consumption only, in a raised bed, that just happened to be over top of my own septic leach field that I maintained religiously... and I was given 7 days to demolish it or else be heavily fined for "public endangerment"....
Now that's ridiculous, garden police? LOL. If they started doing stuff like that in this area it would go over like a lead balloon.
 
Old 07-20-2010, 12:51 AM
 
Location: Interior AK
4,729 posts, read 8,610,611 times
Reputation: 3358
Yeah, I know... I thought it was pretty insane myself when I got the notice in the mail

I'm sooooo glad I don't live anywhere near a city anymore!
 
Old 07-20-2010, 06:04 AM
 
9,807 posts, read 13,407,272 times
Reputation: 8158
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingAll4Seasons View Post
Hate to break it to ya, but in some states they already have!!

King Co. WA mandated that I had to remove my own personal (raised bed) garden from the only sunny part of my yard because it was over my septic leach field. This was my garden, for my own personal consumption only, in a raised bed, that just happened to be over top of my own septic leach field that I maintained religiously... and I was given 7 days to demolish it or else be heavily fined for "public endangerment". The only possible "public" that I was endangering were myself and my husband... and it was our poop in the tank to being with, if we got sick from something in it that would mean we were already sick to begin with!

And in other jurisdictions, you can only keep a certain number of chickens as "pets"... if you have too many, regardless of zoning, they can come after you for "intent to sell". Sure, you can fight it if you can prove that you weren't going to illegally sell the eggs or meat... but really, what happened to innocent until proven guilty?

---for my own personal consumption---

That shouldn't trump laws about sepric tanks ( and wells)

If there were no laws regarding septic tanks, some people would install one right next to their well and proclaim-----" the water is for my own prersonal consumption "
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