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And yet it is the enviromentalist fault we use plastic shopping bags to begin with. Way back when, enviromentalist wanted us to switch to plastic shopping bags instead of brown paper bags in order to save the trees. Around that same time, they also wanted us to use styrofoam cups and burger containers instead of paper or cardboard. Brown paper bags can be recycled and are biodegradable, plastic isn't.
I don't like those reusable bags because of the store name printed on it. Sell me a blank one if I ever see one.
Some yrs back a Grocery chain store had a bin at the entrance for customers to deposit their old plastic bags for recycling purposes. Drawback was that after closing time the box boy or janitor emptied the bin into the trash bin outside the rear receiving door to be hauled away and you know where. Those bags could have had roaches in them.
Being in the Liquor/Grocery trade for 23 yrs new of a Liquor store owner who told me of a lady bringing back the paper bags to be reused by him for other customers. Thing was the bags had roaches in them and after the woman left he would dump the bags in the outside trash bin. So much for recycling.
Dude, seriously. Re-read that. Then consider that I am in north Alabama.
I am wracking my brain trying to figure out how my cat poo filled re-used plastic bags that I toss in the garbage are somehow going to be transported to an ocean, where they will kill wildlife. I would be willing to fund a documentary on just how that could happen.
"Here is Harry's plastic grocery bag, filled with cat poo. Our undercover reporter will now trace this bag from his garbage can in north Alabama to the gyre in the Pacific Ocean, where it will kill innocent wildlife. (suitable documentary music ensues)"
You totally blew off the whole concept that the bags are substituting for other products that require a much higher energy impact.
If you think I, or anyone else, will take you seriously, you have to do MUCH better than that.
it takes a while, but it's entirely plausible. plastic bags don't ever disintegrate. they break down over and over again into tiny little plastic particles, you start by putting it in the trash can, then it gets transported to a garbage truck, if it doesn't blow away when your can is emptied into the truck. then it goes from truck to transport, then to landfill. it's not literally about your plastic bag, it's just that many many bags do end up in the woods, blowing down the street, on the beach, in water, etc. ocean currents around the world cause the particles to gather in certain spots in the ocean. the spot in the pacific just happens to be the most alarming because of the size. and it completely destroys the fish habitats near there.
so yeah, it's possible. 11% of plastic bags get recycled. that leaves 89%. look up the quantity numbers of just the average new yorker, how many bags they use per year.
i'd say you're a few steps ahead of most americans with your plastic bag usage, but the larger point still remains.
And yet it is the enviromentalist fault we use plastic shopping bags to begin with. Way back when, enviromentalist wanted us to switch to plastic shopping bags instead of brown paper bags in order to save the trees. Around that same time, they also wanted us to use styrofoam cups and burger containers instead of paper or cardboard. Brown paper bags can be recycled and are biodegradable, plastic isn't.
plastic bags are recyclable, and are actually the better choice between the two if you recycle.
takes less energy to recycle a plastic bag into reusable material than a paper bag. i was pretty surprised to learn this when i did. so if you do have to choose, the best option is plastic bag, recycle vs paper bag, recycle.
if you're not going to recycle, then paper bag is the better choice.
Paper making, in general, is pretty labor intensive and can be quite toxic (bleaches, brighteners, etc). I worked at a Union paper mill for a summer and was quite shocked at all that goes into making the different kinds of paper. I do, however, still prefer paper over plastic because it's a renewable resource and biodegradable in normal composting conditions (as long as they haven't finished it with something toxic). Recycled paper isn't as strong as first-run paper either since the fibers have been damaged... something else to think about. Not that recycled paper is bad or that it shouldn't be recycled, but it's just not a magic bullet.
Plastic can't really be recycled... it can only be downcycled. Eventually, you can't chemically refactor it "down" anymore and it's junk unless you can repurpose it in it's current form. Reducing consumption, and then repurposing/reusing plastic is definitely a better long-term solution than downcycling it. The biggest problem with this approach with plastic is that it can't be as easily sanitized - so you can't refill a plastic pop bottle with more soda and sell it again like you can with glass, you have to use that bottle for something else. And plastic has a problem with absorbing and/or reacting to certain contents... so you have to be careful what you put in it, either the first time or the 12th time in case it still contains traces of something init previously that will react to what you're trying to put in it now.
However, those plastic grocery bags are "easily" downcycled into synthetic fabrics if they are collected... just whether it's cost effective or practical to do so on the scale that we generally consume and waste those bags.
Dude, seriously. Re-read that. Then consider that I am in north Alabama.
I am wracking my brain trying to figure out how my cat poo filled re-used plastic bags that I toss in the garbage are somehow going to be transported to an ocean, where they will kill wildlife. I would be willing to fund a documentary on just how that could happen.
"Here is Harry's plastic grocery bag, filled with cat poo. Our undercover reporter will now trace this bag from his garbage can in north Alabama to the gyre in the Pacific Ocean, where it will kill innocent wildlife. (suitable documentary music ensues)"
You totally blew off the whole concept that the bags are substituting for other products that require a much higher energy impact.
If you think I, or anyone else, will take you seriously, you have to do MUCH better than that.
Stranger things have been known to happen, and unless you know how your trash is taken of which you well may, it is possible.
I have no idea what happens to my trash once i take it to what was once a dump, but there things are sorted and a compactor crushes most plastic bags willed with what ever trash is in them. From there they are taken away to somewhere. So my bags tossed out at the local dump might end up most anywhere.
My wife and I recycle store bags as best we can too. Lining household trash baskets with them, using others to gather items in the garden, and what ever else we can. They are never tossed out straight after putting the store bought groceries away.
We choose paper bags when there is a choice in the store too, and I recyle those for patterns, car parts sewwing and etc, and when they are about useless compost them for soil. I compost a lot of cardboard too.
Paper making, in general, is pretty labor intensive and can be quite toxic (bleaches, brighteners, etc). I worked at a Union paper mill for a summer and was quite shocked at all that goes into making the different kinds of paper. I do, however, still prefer paper over plastic because it's a renewable resource and biodegradable in normal composting conditions (as long as they haven't finished it with something toxic). Recycled paper isn't as strong as first-run paper either since the fibers have been damaged... something else to think about. Not that recycled paper is bad or that it shouldn't be recycled, but it's just not a magic bullet.
Plastic can't really be recycled... it can only be downcycled. Eventually, you can't chemically refactor it "down" anymore and it's junk unless you can repurpose it in it's current form. Reducing consumption, and then repurposing/reusing plastic is definitely a better long-term solution than downcycling it. The biggest problem with this approach with plastic is that it can't be as easily sanitized - so you can't refill a plastic pop bottle with more soda and sell it again like you can with glass, you have to use that bottle for something else. And plastic has a problem with absorbing and/or reacting to certain contents... so you have to be careful what you put in it, either the first time or the 12th time in case it still contains traces of something init previously that will react to what you're trying to put in it now.
However, those plastic grocery bags are "easily" downcycled into synthetic fabrics if they are collected... just whether it's cost effective or practical to do so on the scale that we generally consume and waste those bags.
yeah. i can see the logic for choosing paper because you want to avoid plastic, but it's still "greener" to choose plastic bag and recycle vs paper bag and recycle. and whenever possible, recycling the paper bag is better than composting it. all of these things were surprising to me when i read it, but wired mag is usually a pretty good source.
the true answer is just use reusable bags. i bought chico bags because the fold up into a little pouch and are easy to keep in cars, purses, brief cases, etc.
if more people start using these things (reusable bags), it's amazing the effect we could have. it's unreal how many bags NYC residents go through alone each year.
yeah. i can see the logic for choosing paper because you want to avoid plastic, but it's still "greener" to choose plastic bag and recycle vs paper bag and recycle.
I have never found any evidence suggesting that your average plastic bag gets recycled, though.
I have read (and seen pix) that pallets of them allegedly on route to recycling facilities overseas were instead fed into incinerators and basically used as heating fuel.
The problem is that we have loads and loads of freight barges bringing items to the USA from China, but very little going back.
So, economically, this actually makes sense - if you discount the pollution, of course.
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