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Old 09-01-2010, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Tennessee/Michigan
28,218 posts, read 47,628,039 times
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Los Angeles, California (CNN) -- California's Senate has voted down a measure that would have banned plastic bags at grocery stores.

The new ban was rejected by a 21 to 14 vote late Tuesday. The ban would have included grocery stores, convenience stores and drugstores.

California bill to ban plastic bags fails - CNN.com
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Old 09-01-2010, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Colorado
1,712 posts, read 3,049,681 times
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While I try to be green, I agree with the court. This would be a hardship for many people (especially those in the lower economic statuses). I forget my reusable bags around 40% of the time. While you might want to, you can't legislate this stuff.
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Old 09-02-2010, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Nort Seid
5,288 posts, read 7,610,720 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_hug99 View Post
While I try to be green, I agree with the court. This would be a hardship for many people (especially those in the lower economic statuses). I forget my reusable bags around 40% of the time. While you might want to, you can't legislate this stuff.
I keep a stock of reusable bags in my trunk, makes it a snap.

And you can change the behavior fairly simply:

Irish Ban Makes Plastic Bags Rare - The Daily Green

Back in 2002, the Irish government passed a tax on plastic bags. Use of the bags that molder in landfills, catch in trees and refuse to break down and disappear dropped by 94 percent within weeks, according to the New York Times.

Here's the alternative:

pacific garbage patch - Google Search
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Old 09-02-2010, 02:52 PM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,545 posts, read 18,449,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_hug99 View Post
While I try to be green, I agree with the court. This would be a hardship for many people (especially those in the lower economic statuses). I forget my reusable bags around 40% of the time. While you might want to, you can't legislate this stuff.
that's utter BS. they've been doing this in europe for decades. go to a grocery store in rome, you have to pay 0.05 euro for a grocery bag.

you'd be darn sure to remember them if you had to pay for one every time at the store!

11% of grocery plastic bags are recyled. 11%! guess where the other 89% end up? mostly on the plastic island in the pacific ocean. forget the environmental effects - what about reducing oil consumption?

this is a no brainer for us to reduce this plastic consumption. if people won't do it themselves, then, unfortunately, it should be legislated.
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Old 09-03-2010, 03:32 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
513 posts, read 997,190 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
that's utter BS. they've been doing this in europe for decades. go to a grocery store in rome, you have to pay 0.05 euro for a grocery bag.
I visited Poland this year, each time I went to a grocery store I had to buy a new plastic "eco-friendly" bag. The term "eco-friendly" means they are compostable, they are so thin that sometimes they compost themselves before you get back home However I saw many people using reusable shopping bags, therefore Poland has returned to the condition she was 20 years ago, then everybody was using reusables
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Old 09-03-2010, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Nort Seid
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Originally Posted by moskiter View Post
However I saw many people using reusable shopping bags, therefore Poland has returned to the condition she was 20 years ago, then everybody was using reusables
Awesome.

At the end of the day, this disposable culture we've created is a blip on the historical landscape.

No society on earth has ever been as pathetically wasteful as we are - people in the pre-Industrial Revolution days (and in plenty of countries right now) used ceramic jugs to haul water, woven baskets for goods, etc.

Americans have just gotten soft and lazy. It's sad, but it's a fact- I'm pretty sure the Bill of Rights doesn't have a mention of plastic bags.

But to the point, nothing is free. Those bags do cost something, and people should pay for them (and to properly recycle them, which of course is not possible for certain plastics).
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Old 09-03-2010, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
17,889 posts, read 54,207,525 times
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I have literally not "thrown out" a plastic bag in years unless it was torn. We have a couple of bags of bags in the utility closet. Those get used for can liners in wastebaskets, cat poo removal from the litterbox, cheap "gloves" and "booties" for working in the muck around here while wearing those aggressively treaded sneakers, paint brush pads, and DOZENS of other uses.

Now consider the cost and resources that would be involved in buying can liners, bags for the cat poo, gloves, boots, and so on. That micromole plastic in bags is so almost non-existent that if our two full bags of bags weigh more than a few ounces, I would be surprised.

Then there is this of course-

http://www.americanchemistry.com/s_p...=1102&DID=5615

The move to ban bags is misguided, and pushed down the path by people who want to make money selling "green" reusable bags. Stuff an organic chicken or two in those, let the juices drip out while you bring them home, and then store your bag for re-use. Smile when you get those "What STINKS?" looks at the store. BTW, don't say you can just wash those bags. Consider the water use and energy use and cleaning solution use, plus the footprint of those, and you'll find that you would have had to use HUNDREDS of plastic bags to make your green ones worthwhile.
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Old 09-03-2010, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Nort Seid
5,288 posts, read 7,610,720 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
I have literally not "thrown out" a plastic bag in years unless it was torn.
Using the bags twice doesn't mean you aren't throwing them away, and doesn't mean they might not eventually end up floating in the ocean & killing wildlife.

But I certainly agree that reusing them is a better habit than just pitching them.

As for your link, you quoted an organization which represents people who have a financial interest in keeping plastic bags on the market.
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Old 09-03-2010, 11:17 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,545 posts, read 18,449,199 times
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yes chi-town. and while washing a bag may not be "greener" than using a plastic bag, since you're already washing towels and whatnot, and can throw it in with them, you're not adding to your washing cycles.

get your chicken from a butcher who properly wraps the chicken and you don't worry about that leakage.

plastic bags don't break down. that's the issue. sure, they aren't completely avoidable, but can be greatly reduced. to almost nothing really.

many "green" movements are misguided, but this one is not. reducing the plastic waste and the petroleum consumption are two positives that result in reducing our plastic bag usage.

regardless, i think you're doing a pretty good job with reusing.

the saying is: reduce, reuse, recycle. it's in that order for a reason. that's what we need to focus on.
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Old 09-03-2010, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Nort Seid
5,288 posts, read 7,610,720 times
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yes, like many of the anti-sustainability arguments, there's a faulty assumption being used at the foundation, and this is it:

Consider the water use and energy use and cleaning solution use, plus the footprint of those, and you'll find that you would have had to use HUNDREDS of plastic bags to make your green ones worthwhile.

For starters, I have about 30 reusable bags and I haven't had to wash a single one of them.

Secondly, many grocery stores practically give the dang reusable bags away because in the end it saves them money.

There's no giant economic conspiracy here, it's simply smart business.

And really, what we're talking about is simply using bags that aren't designed to be disposed of. The conspiracy is that by adding the tag "reusable" you've suddenly joined Al Gore's Invisible Army of Brainwashed Hippies.
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