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Old 10-01-2010, 04:39 AM
 
Location: Upper Midwest
1,877 posts, read 3,716,178 times
Reputation: 1884

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
Health may be their top priority while others may put the environment at the top of their list.
That's pretty implying that formula-fed babies are unhealthy or less healthy. Formula isn't unhealthy. Those babies grow up just fine and check out every bit as well as breastfed babies at the doctor. It's long-term decisions of the child and genetics that really matter. The fully breastfed child could drop dead of a heart attack at 54 because heart disease runs in his family, and he makes a few McDonald's stops every week for lunch. The formula fed child, on the other hand may live to 90 because he became health conscious in his '20s and decided to workout regularly and eat right, or simply because he just made sensible choices all his life.

And what good will it do them to have a clean bill of health from breastfeeding... if they're living in a future toxic environment?
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Old 10-01-2010, 08:02 AM
 
4,267 posts, read 5,301,122 times
Reputation: 3579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesconsinite View Post
That's pretty implying that formula-fed babies are unhealthy or less healthy. Formula isn't unhealthy. Those babies grow up just fine and check out every bit as well as breastfed babies at the doctor. It's long-term decisions of the child and genetics that really matter. The fully breastfed child could drop dead of a heart attack at 54 because heart disease runs in his family, and he makes a few McDonald's stops every week for lunch. The formula fed child, on the other hand may live to 90 because he became health conscious in his '20s and decided to workout regularly and eat right, or simply because he just made sensible choices all his life.

And what good will it do them to have a clean bill of health from breastfeeding... if they're living in a future toxic environment?
Breast Milk is the healthiest choice for babies. Formula is a good alternative to breast milk. That's a fact that is not in dispute.

Do you have kids? Have you personally used cloth diapers on a regular basis?

Are there any areas in your personal life where you could make improvements to help the environment or are you already doing it all?

ETA: Personally I don't care if people breast or bottle feed as long as they are respectful of each others choices but since this issue was brought up in regards to green living I thought it would be worth pointing out that there are environmental benefits to breastfeeding vs. using formula

http://www.breastfeeding.com/reading_room/eco-mama.html (broken link)

Last edited by Dorthy; 10-01-2010 at 08:17 AM..
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Old 10-02-2010, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Upper Midwest
1,877 posts, read 3,716,178 times
Reputation: 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
Breast Milk is the healthiest choice for babies. Formula is a good alternative to breast milk. That's a fact that is not in dispute.

Do you have kids? Have you personally used cloth diapers on a regular basis?

Are there any areas in your personal life where you could make improvements to help the environment or are you already doing it all?

ETA: Personally I don't care if people breast or bottle feed as long as they are respectful of each others choices but since this issue was brought up in regards to green living I thought it would be worth pointing out that there are environmental benefits to breastfeeding vs. using formula

Eco-Mama: Why Breastfeeding is Best for Babies...and the Environment (http://www.breastfeeding.com/reading_room/eco-mama.html - broken link)

You addressed none of my good points from my last post regarding a clean bill of health in a toxic environment.

Of course.

You implied formula was unhealthy though.
You said people choose to make their health a priority or they choose the environment... as if by choosing formula you're not making your child's health a priority. Choosing formula over breastmilk and vice versa is merely a preference. One or the other doesn't make a healthier human being. I don't care what the studies say. The proof is in the pudding. Babies on formula and adults getting annual physicals who drank formula check out just as good (and bad) at the doctor as breastfed people did.

I plan to have kids and I plan to use cloth diapers on a regular basis. I will do everything to make sure a disposable never touches my baby's bottom. Sadly I don't do a great deal of recycling because frankly the state I'm in (Montana) doesn't have a great recycling program. (It's funny, I know. You think Montana, you think wilderness... people who would be all gung-ho recycling... but the state and city I'm moving to this month has a much better recycling program and I plan to go full-force with recycling when I get there.)

Honestly I'm not sure what kind of a "green" forum this is, the majority of which advocates disposables over cloth... lol. Not one I probably want to get much advice from.... And that's just MY opinion.

Run with that breastmilk and keep dumping non-biodegradable dipes in the trash. They'll be sitting on a mountain of toxic garbage in 50 years with a perfect bill of health... for a while, until the toxins seep in!
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Old 10-02-2010, 09:51 PM
 
4,267 posts, read 5,301,122 times
Reputation: 3579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesconsinite View Post
You addressed none of my good points from my last post regarding a clean bill of health in a toxic environment.

Of course.

You implied formula was unhealthy though.
You said people choose to make their health a priority or they choose the environment... as if by choosing formula you're not making your child's health a priority. Choosing formula over breastmilk and vice versa is merely a preference. One or the other doesn't make a healthier human being. I don't care what the studies say. The proof is in the pudding. Babies on formula and adults getting annual physicals who drank formula check out just as good (and bad) at the doctor as breastfed people did.

I plan to have kids and I plan to use cloth diapers on a regular basis. I will do everything to make sure a disposable never touches my baby's bottom. Sadly I don't do a great deal of recycling because frankly the state I'm in (Montana) doesn't have a great recycling program. (It's funny, I know. You think Montana, you think wilderness... people who would be all gung-ho recycling... but the state and city I'm moving to this month has a much better recycling program and I plan to go full-force with recycling when I get there.)

Honestly I'm not sure what kind of a "green" forum this is, the majority of which advocates disposables over cloth... lol. Not one I probably want to get much advice from.... And that's just MY opinion.

Run with that breastmilk and keep dumping non-biodegradable dipes in the trash. They'll be sitting on a mountain of toxic garbage in 50 years with a perfect bill of health... for a while, until the toxins seep in!
I didn't ignore your points. Like I said I'm planning to use cloth with my next child.

You chose to ignore my link regarding the environmental benefits of breastfeeding. I would think someone as green as you would find that to be important information and would not be so dismissive of it since using formula does contribute to environmental degradation just like disposables. I find it difficult to take your opinion seriously when you are so outspoken about saving the environment by only doing certain specific things while you are dismissive of or ignore other ways to help.

Besides recycling (which you admit that you don't do) and cloth diapering (something you haven't done yet) what are you personally doing to protect the environment? Do you compost? Do you garden? Do you eat organic? Do you eat local? Are you a vegan? Do you ever use plastic bags, paper plates, non-reusable cups? Do you use toilet paper or are you a family cloth kind of gal? Diva cup? Do you drive a car? Use chemicals to clean your house or kill weeds in your yard? The list could go on and on and my point is simply this, there are lots of ways to help protect the environment and my guess is that 99% of people could be doing more. It seems odd to put so much emphasis on just one thing on the list and judge people for not doing it while there are many other things on that same list that you personally aren't willing to do yourself. It seems short sighted and hypocritical to say the least.
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Old 10-03-2010, 02:48 AM
 
Location: Upper Midwest
1,877 posts, read 3,716,178 times
Reputation: 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
I didn't ignore your points. Like I said I'm planning to use cloth with my next child.

You chose to ignore my link regarding the environmental benefits of breastfeeding. I would think someone as green as you would find that to be important information and would not be so dismissive of it since using formula does contribute to environmental degradation just like disposables. I find it difficult to take your opinion seriously when you are so outspoken about saving the environment by only doing certain specific things while you are dismissive of or ignore other ways to help.

Besides recycling (which you admit that you don't do) and cloth diapering (something you haven't done yet) what are you personally doing to protect the environment? Do you compost? Do you garden? Do you eat organic? Do you eat local? Are you a vegan? Do you ever use plastic bags, paper plates, non-reusable cups? Do you use toilet paper or are you a family cloth kind of gal? Diva cup? Do you drive a car? Use chemicals to clean your house or kill weeds in your yard? The list could go on and on and my point is simply this, there are lots of ways to help protect the environment and my guess is that 99% of people could be doing more. It seems odd to put so much emphasis on just one thing on the list and judge people for not doing it while there are many other things on that same list that you personally aren't willing to do yourself. It seems short sighted and hypocritical to say the least.
It sounds like I am choosing my things, and you are choosing your things, just the same. Are YOU really passionate about every single one of those things you just mentioned? Since you're all for disposable diapers, I would find it very hard to believe if you said "Yes I am."

I am planning to recycle when I move... I explained that.... it's not convenient here where I live, it's ridiculous. I do what I can, but I can't possibly do enough. At the moment, really the only thing they recycle is 1 and 2 plastic bottles, seriously. On the website for the city I'm relocating to, I see there is so much more I'm going to be able to do, and I'm excited.

And yes, I've read tons of nonsense on pro-breastfeeding...... tons. I think it's very blown out of proportion, to support someone's personal view, that's all. You can't deny all the diapers sitting in landfills for decades though. That's as plain as the nose on your face. And again, as I said posts ago, if you read disposable diaper packaging, people are supposed to discard the waste into the toilet when they're done with the diaper, but NOBODY does that. So imagine how that's contaminating the environment. And you don't have a problem with THAT?

Once again, you're choosing your things, I'm choosing mine... obviously. And besides... I thought breastfeeding was a "health issue"...
(Health over environment?)

But I'm always more right than wrong and that's just the way it is. So Bow Down!

Last edited by MSPLove; 10-03-2010 at 03:14 AM..
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Old 10-03-2010, 08:25 AM
 
4,267 posts, read 5,301,122 times
Reputation: 3579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesconsinite View Post
It sounds like I am choosing my things, and you are choosing your things, just the same. Are YOU really passionate about every single one of those things you just mentioned? Since you're all for disposable diapers, I would find it very hard to believe if you said "Yes I am."
I fully admit that I'm not doing everything that I could be doing but I'm also not judging others for what they do or don't do. I don't tell people that they are "killing the earth" or tell people that they are responsible for creating a toxic environment just because they don't do one thing in particular while I sit self righteously (and hypocritically) looking down on them from my high horse.


Quote:
I am planning to recycle when I move... I explained that.... it's not convenient here where I live, it's ridiculous. I do what I can, but I can't possibly do enough. At the moment, really the only thing they recycle is 1 and 2 plastic bottles, seriously. On the website for the city I'm relocating to, I see there is so much more I'm going to be able to do, and I'm excited.
So your reason for not recycling is because it's not convenient? Could there be places where you can drop off recyclables other then #1 and #2 plastic bottles? I'm guessing yes but wait. That wouldn't be convenient for you, would it?

Quote:
And yes, I've read tons of nonsense on pro-breastfeeding...... tons. I think it's very blown out of proportion, to support someone's personal view, that's all.
You only see what you want to see.
Quote:
You can't deny all the diapers sitting in landfills for decades though. That's as plain as the nose on your face.
No I can't but at the same time you can't deny the environmental benefits to breastfeeding either. You can't get more local when it comes to food then you can with breastfeeding. Are all of those environmentalists who talk about the benefits of eating local wrong?
Quote:
And again, as I said posts ago, if you read disposable diaper packaging, people are supposed to discard the waste into the toilet when they're done with the diaper, but NOBODY does that. So imagine how that's contaminating the environment. And you don't have a problem with THAT?
They should. I did.

Quote:
Once again, you're choosing your things, I'm choosing mine... obviously. And besides... I thought breastfeeding was a "health issue"...
(Health over environment?)
There's much more to it then just health, obviously.

Quote:
But I'm always more right than wrong and that's just the way it is. So Bow Down!
Wow! Good luck with that attitude.
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Old 10-03-2010, 09:04 AM
 
4,267 posts, read 5,301,122 times
Reputation: 3579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesconsinite View Post
Since you're all for disposable diapers, I would find it very hard to believe if you said "Yes I am."
I already said that I plan to use cloth with my next baby. How exactly does that make me "all for disposables?" Just because I understand some of the reasons why a person would choose to use disposables doesn't make me "pro-disposables". That's really quite a stretch.
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Old 10-03-2010, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Coastal Georgia
36,999 posts, read 45,476,182 times
Reputation: 61523
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingAll4Seasons View Post
The only thing I'd be worried about from a green perspective is the amount of water that's getting used to rinse and launder the diapers. My neighbor has twins that are just now entering potty-training. Since we're in the bush, cloth diapers are really the only way to go but water is scarce since it's hauled in. She takes the poo dipes out the outhouse to get scraped, then they and the pee dipes go into a wet pail (cold water with some hydrogen peroxide) to soak overnight. In the morning, she puts the soaked ones in the wash basin with just enough warm water (from the wood stove) to cover, and a tiny amount of Dreft then hand agitates with a plunger-type, tougher stains might need a scrub on the washboard with some Zote bar soap. everything goes through the hand wringer and gets hung on the line (either outside or inside if it's too cold). The wash water becomes the new soak water. All dipes get a double rinse, with the rinse water becoming tomorrow's wash water. The soak water goes out in the garden (small amounts of peroxide and Dreft don't hurt the plants). All total - she uses less than 5 gallons a day for about 30 diapers... but, yes, she does actually have to touch some poo and pee.
In the bush? Haul water in? Twins? Outhouse? My head is spinning. All I can say is, you both are some super women!!
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Old 10-03-2010, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Interior AK
4,729 posts, read 8,619,499 times
Reputation: 3358
Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlearts View Post
In the bush? Haul water in? Twins? Outhouse? My head is spinning. All I can say is, you both are some super women!!
Well having young-uns in the middle of nowhere certainly makes you appreciate things like hot & cold running water, electricity at the flip of a switch, and thermostatic heat But you do what you have to, just like our ancestors did (and many of us bush-dwellers still do). It's the price we accept to live in a remote area mostly untouched by man.
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Old 10-05-2010, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Vermont
5,439 posts, read 14,757,655 times
Reputation: 2629
we are using cloth diapers

the amount of energy used to create disposable diapers, truck them around to a store, then off to the dump where they will sit forever to me seemed like it was worse than the energy and water used to use and re-use cloth. i dont have any scientific data on this.
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