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Old 02-14-2011, 01:06 PM
 
10,139 posts, read 23,206,967 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calvinbama View Post
Just like every piece of new technology out there, I will wait until there is a 2nd generation of electric vehicles and many of them have become used and more affordable before I snap one up. Until then I'm riding out my 4cyl Mazda6 until it quits running
Lithium batteries seem to be resistant to improvement. I'm on about my third generation of laptops with litium batteries and my current one with an 8 hour battery lasts about 3 hours after only a few months of use. I think yuo might want to wait until some better technology comes along.
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Old 02-14-2011, 01:53 PM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,545 posts, read 18,378,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilson1010 View Post
Update on the Nissan Leaf.

Here is a reality check from the San Antonio Sun:

Leaving my driveway the first morning, with 100 miles until empty showing on the dash, I thought I was well prepared for my 26.4-mile commute to work and felt that I also would be able to get back home in the evening without having to do any charging while at work.
Wrong.
Here's the real scoop: By the time I got to the interstate highway that leads to my downtown office — the entrance ramp is about 2.5 miles from my house — the miles-to-empty readout had dropped from 100 to 81, indicating that I already had used 19 miles of the battery's power.


By the time I got to work, the meter read “51 miles” left, indicating I had used almost twice the actual miles I'd driven. Luckily, I'd had the foresight to bring the charging cord with me; I'd almost left it at home, believing at that time that I would have plenty of juice to get to work and back, and maybe even take the Leaf out somewhere nice for lunch.
At work, I found a 110-volt outlet attached to the building, in a company parking lot, and plugged in the Leaf. And when I came out nine hours later to drive home, the dash meter showed 77 miles left to go.
I went straight home, and when I got there, the meter was all the way down to 27 miles — 50 miles lopped off for the 26.4-mile commute.
. . . .


Read more: Nissan Leaf a comfortable, fun car to drive - San Antonio Express-News


everyone was aware of the fact that different driving habits results in different results. 100mi is a guideline if you follow certain habits.

later in the article the writer mentions his "usual 70mph". there's your range difference right there.
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Old 02-14-2011, 01:57 PM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,545 posts, read 18,378,469 times
Reputation: 3688
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilson1010 View Post
Lithium batteries seem to be resistant to improvement. I'm on about my third generation of laptops with litium batteries and my current one with an 8 hour battery lasts about 3 hours after only a few months of use. I think yuo might want to wait until some better technology comes along.
my laptop battery lasts 6 hours easily, after over a year of use. some are worse than others though. my experience with Dell laptop batteries has been atrocious. Apple, i had a bad one at first, then the replacement i purchased has been going strong for twice as long as the first one. I don't really understand how one differs from the other though. quality control process? who knows. battery technology will continue to change though. they have been discussing for a few years now having smaller cells at multiple points in a device, rather than 1 large batter for the entire device. also, as solar technology becomes more mainstream, I think we'll see solar cells attached to a lot of devices providing real time charging even as the device is in use. there's a lot of things that can happen to improve batter life.
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Old 02-14-2011, 02:53 PM
 
10,139 posts, read 23,206,967 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
my laptop battery lasts 6 hours easily, after over a year of use. some are worse than others though. my experience with Dell laptop batteries has been atrocious. Apple, i had a bad one at first, then the replacement i purchased has been going strong for twice as long as the first one. I don't really understand how one differs from the other though. quality control process? who knows. battery technology will continue to change though. they have been discussing for a few years now having smaller cells at multiple points in a device, rather than 1 large batter for the entire device. also, as solar technology becomes more mainstream, I think we'll see solar cells attached to a lot of devices providing real time charging even as the device is in use. there's a lot of things that can happen to improve batter life.

A solar panel the size of a football field would be required to charge a Leaf battery in real time.
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Old 02-15-2011, 07:43 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,545 posts, read 18,378,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilson1010 View Post
A solar panel the size of a football field would be required to charge a Leaf battery in real time.
i'm not saying charge it 100%, but if you had solar panels on the roof, trunk, and possibly hood it could run much of the electronics while the car is running, decreasing consumption from the charged battery and then when parked in the sun could charge the car during the day without even being plugged in, or speed up the charging if it's also plugged in. sure, it's not going to charge a vehicle, but i think we'll see them be placed on laptops, cell phones, street lights, and other small devices as time goes on. think outside the box a little.
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Old 02-15-2011, 09:02 AM
 
371 posts, read 325,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
i'm not saying charge it 100%, but if you had solar panels on the roof, trunk, and possibly hood it could run much of the electronics while the car is running, decreasing consumption from the charged battery and then when parked in the sun could charge the car during the day without even being plugged in, or speed up the charging if it's also plugged in. sure, it's not going to charge a vehicle, but i think we'll see them be placed on laptops, cell phones, street lights, and other small devices as time goes on. think outside the box a little.

If you do some searches you can find modified Honda Insights that people have added extra batteries to and added light weight flexible solar panels, essentially making their own plug in hybrid (I know the Leaf is all electric).

Their idea is similar to yours, provide a little trickle for the 8 hours the car is parked while you're at work. I doubt it makes much of a difference, but I honestly don't know.


As far as the Leaf goes I think it is a tremendously stupid idea. 100 mile range is garbage. People like to drive at 70mph, if you are willing to drive at 40mph, buy a turbo diesel VW and get 65+ mpg and never worry about plugging in.

In 3 years we should see Leaf's for sale used with very low mileage. After a person is stranded one time I doubt they'll drive it as much.
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Old 02-15-2011, 09:30 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,545 posts, read 18,378,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randy8876 View Post
If you do some searches you can find modified Honda Insights that people have added extra batteries to and added light weight flexible solar panels, essentially making their own plug in hybrid (I know the Leaf is all electric).

Their idea is similar to yours, provide a little trickle for the 8 hours the car is parked while you're at work. I doubt it makes much of a difference, but I honestly don't know.


As far as the Leaf goes I think it is a tremendously stupid idea. 100 mile range is garbage. People like to drive at 70mph, if you are willing to drive at 40mph, buy a turbo diesel VW and get 65+ mpg and never worry about plugging in.

In 3 years we should see Leaf's for sale used with very low mileage. After a person is stranded one time I doubt they'll drive it as much.
this is an interesting article. Chevy Volt Barely Makes 2011 List of Greenest Vehicles | PluginCars.com

as for the Leaf, I know it won't be driven by everyone, but there are many people it would work well for, especially as more charging stations pop up. I think the "range anxiety" will probably prove true for people who shouldn't have bought it for their driving style in the first place, but will largely prove to be unfounded. the stats are that if you drive <60mph, you're substantially more efficient than >60mph. so driving 55-60 vs driving 70 will be fine for a lot of people, and it is the law in most places I've been to (55 or 65 is usually interstate speed limit in the northeast). the types of people that drive 70mph aren't the types of people targeted by these cars, nor are they the types of people who would generally even care that these cars existed.
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Old 02-16-2011, 08:56 AM
 
15,924 posts, read 17,371,879 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
the stats are that if you drive <60mph, you're substantially more efficient than >60mph. so driving 55-60 vs driving 70 will be fine for a lot of people, and it is the law in most places
I'd really like to see some modern facts to back up this urban myth.
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Old 02-16-2011, 10:40 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,545 posts, read 18,378,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plwhit View Post
I'd really like to see some modern facts to back up this urban myth.
they did it on mythbusters. it's simple phsyics with air drag. the faster the car is going, the more resistance there is from air. high school science class provides needed facts to back it up.

also, i see it when i drive 60 instead of 70. i get better avg mpg on the highway every time.

have you ever tried it?
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Old 02-16-2011, 10:50 AM
 
371 posts, read 325,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plwhit View Post
I'd really like to see some modern facts to back up this urban myth.
Each car has a "sweet spot". I had a 2005 Dodge Ram with a Hemi. Setting the cruise control at 49mph I could get 26mpg. That was the highest mileage I ever saw.

My 2010 Nissan Versa gets 38-39mpg when I do 40mph.

Here is an article:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/***/driveHabits.shtml (broken link)

Which pretty much says there is no set speed, but anything over 60 and you'll start seeing losses.

Typically if you are at a low RPM (not dogging the engine)in your top gear you will see the best fuel economy.

Here's a consumer reports article that gives examples of the Camry:
Fuel economy: Save money on gas (http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/tires-auto-parts/car-maintenance/fuel-economy-save-money-on-gas/overview/index.htm - broken link)

Another article that goes with 40-50 mph:
The Ideal Vehicle Speed for Best Fuel Economy « Broken Secrets

Also to double the power output you need 8 times the energy, which is why you see decreases in efficiency so fast.
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