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I'm not sure where using wood products is bad. Wood is or used to be considered a renewable resource, so its better to use a wood product (like a paper bag) than a petroluem based one (like plastic).
I'm not sure why so many of you are hung up on the fact that 90% of the eco people I meet share these views.
They come up with excuses, like...
I acknowledge the issue of overpopulation, but I would never support the stopping of immigration, paying women for using birth control or mandating birth control for welfare users. I also won't support deporting people. I just hope the problem magically fixes itself. In this case they acknowledge the problem, and ignore solutions.
The best are the excuses for supporting immigration. "I know that population size is the most significant factor to environmental damage, but..." and here it comes "I like racial diversity more". Or some people use the "I like having a variety of ethnic places to eat". Or "I'm afraid someone will call me a racist".
The harsh penalties one is laughable (5 years for raping a kid?). Look at Singapore, where people get executed at the highest per capita rate, 15-20 year sentence for rape, corporal punishment (caning) for crimes that risk others lives or security. Unfortunately this results in extremely low crime rates and allows people to live in close quarters. What a terrible result.
During the Bush era when gas prices shot up, it was the same eco people complaining about high prices. I was stoked, I wish the Saudi's would boast oil to $150 a barrel and increase the price at 3% annually.
Even if fuel economy shot up today to an average of 40mpg, in less than 5 years our fuel consumption will be the same. But, shrinking population size has an immediate and lasting positive effect.
Where does Green Peace and the Sierra Club stand on immigration? In 1996 the Sierra Club decided to no longer back halting immigration. GreenPeace has also decided to not take a stance. Since overpopulation is the #1 issue, why not address it?
The issue with Al Gore is too many people support him, and it makes people question the sanity of the "green movement". He invested in a company, made a movie to promote that company and increased his worth by $100 million. He refuses to practice what he preaches, which should make any sane person question if he really believes in any of it.
In the end I have NEVER seen any environmental policies pushed that support halting population growth. What party supports mass immigration? Both, but the dem's are slightly more vocal. What party supports giving money to poor people if they make babies? The dem's again. What party came out to stop the mandating of Norplant for welfare users? The dem's again. What party claims to be green? The dem's again.
Randy,
First of all, your listing of what is "green" is incorrect. "Green" means quit trashing the planet. The largest piece of that pie is we should start using renewable energy, because we are going to run out of oil in 50 years. I might add that being green is bipartisan, that is, Republicans, Democrats and Independents are all capable of understanding that our waters are polluted, our air is filled with CO2 from car and manufacturing emissions, our landfills are filled with stuff that will never biodegrade, and rain forests are cut down with no regard to the wildlife pushed to the margins. The differences are how to go about resolving these issues and how seriously to take them.
The "green" movement has been going on for decades, it is nothing new, but the response has been slow. Just fifty years ago, littering was not against the law. The trash was everywhere, we looked like a third world country. But the law cleaned it up. Therefore, unless we make laws to stop pollution, it will continue needlessly. Now, as it turns out, our President Barack Obama with the support of the Democratic Party encourages "green" attitudes in our country. Among other things, this will set the framework from which America can continue to thrive even though we will run out of oil.
GG
Here are a couple websites that further explain my points:
I'll bite with an answer, if it's sincerity you truly want, but I will not argue with you.
-immigration is good Not really. I jsut want humane treatment of fellow humans. I do not like corporations who take advantage of language barriors and people from poverty worse than most of us Americans have ever experienced.
-harsh penalties for criminals is bad It depends on the crime. Pot should be legal. Rapists, child molesters, and sex trafficers should do long sentences. In fact, if I were queen, any John, ( the John) who pays for a child who has been taken advantage of by a pimp, would get five years on the first offense. A pimp would get five years for every child he pushes.
-using wood products is bad ??? Burning wood does put particulates in the air. Wood burns dirty, but hey, I love a good fire.
-energy consumption is too high Energy conservation alone could reduce our emissions by huge percentage. I forgot the percentage, but it's high. We blow through energy like bision hogs gone wild. It's ridiculous, really, and we truly do need to conserve energy and water.
-the environment is neglected by republicans and protected by democrats That's too broad to answer without some long partisan spew. I'll pass. But, did you know that the Koch brothers illegally dumped 91 TONS of carcenogenic benzene. They also have used their billions to pay for the lies behind the anti-climate change campaign, and the so called, grassroots tea party movement. You figure it out.
-excessive gas prices is unfair You got this one backward. Most environmentalist and the hard cores want people to stop driving so much and to tax the hell out of fuel.
-pressuring the poor to have less kids is wrong You got this one backward, too. Most environmentalist want people to stop or slow down of the birthin' babies.
-the US is not overpopulated because there are still some open areas Strike three. You got this one backwards. Most environmentalist are very concerned about overpopulation. Overpopulation drives the over consumption of finite resources.
-CO2 is bad, and Al Gore is awesome Sigh. Get over Al Gore. Move on. The ones who pay the most attention to Al are those who fell for the anti-climate change campaign of the Koch heads. Environmentalists, follow climate scientists that have their research published in peer reviewed journals.
i'll also bite just for the heck of it:
-immigration is good i prefer to keep jobs in America. I wasn't a huge fan of globalization, and immigration should only be used as an addition after we take care of our needs at home
-harsh penalties for criminals is bad depends on the crime. harsh penalties for harsh crimes is great. harsh penalties for possessing marijuana 3 times in california is stupid, in my opinion, because i think it should be legal anyways and it really just helps keep prisons full. NY State is finally going to shut down prisons because of the budget issues, but people are fighting it, even though the prison population is decreasing.
-using wood products is bad what's wrong with wood? i love using my fireplace, i love using solid wood furniture. not sure what the issue with wood is, it's plastic most people in your labeled "green movement" have issues with
-energy consumption is too high - in general, this is true. depends on where you live though. it's not that it's "too high", but that it could easily be lower. for pollution reasons and for political and worldly reasons, i think it makes sense to strive to not waste energy when possible.
-the environment is neglected by republicans and protected by democrats - i personally think they both neglect it pretty sufficiently, until they react to something and then forget about it again. it's largely on us as citizens, and even though Democrats try to stake a claim on it, they aren't any better than Republicans when it really comes down to it
-excessive gas prices is unfair - i'm all for the free market on gas prices. not only should subsidies be stopped, but we should consider actually raising the gas tax to become the true funder of road infrastructure. gas consumers are road consumers, and therefore, that would make sense to tax gas and use those proceeds to maintain the roads. doubt this will ever happen though
-pressuring the poor to have less kids is wrong - huh?
-the US is not overpopulated because there are still some open areas is the US overpopulated? i didn't even know this was a discussed "issue"
-CO2 is bad, and Al Gore is awesome - CO2 is bad, Al Gore has done some stuff, so has George W Bush. Neither has done enough. I don't think he's awesome. He does some good things though.
I think this whole green thing is nonsense.
If everyone wanted to be really green, no one would have dryers and everyone would have a clothesline.
I am always skeptical of persons who want to tell me how to live my life. Whether it is Al Gore in his G5 private jet or Nasty Pelosi with her four homes and fat arse sitting on an Air Force 767 flying 30 of her friends around consuming more petro chemicals than everyone on this forum.
They can pound sand. I'm gonna do what I feel like doing and I may just crush a few CFL bulbs and throw them down the toilet in spite.
just curious...if you guys aren't interested in "green living", why do you post on the "green living" section of city data so frequently?
Because i am in a office for 8 hours a day, i have nothing but time to waste and I go into all the topics on this board and many othere.
that is why i can write on green living, which i dont believe in anyway.
because if they really wanter everyone to go green, green products would be cheap instead of more money, and EVERYONE would have a clothesline, and they would not be banned from HOA, and other types of buildings.
Imagine in Palm Springs California where the temperature goes to 112 degrees, I did not see one clothesline outside. People would rather waste electric than hang clothes out in the back yard....112 degrees, gimme a break, don't be so dumb and lazy, hang the damn clothes out.
just curious...if you guys aren't interested in "green living", why do you post on the "green living" section of city data so frequently?
Because the "green Movement" already has me using a plunger on my inadequate toilet, squinting to see in public buildings, driving behind a bunch of roller skates on teh highway and paying most of my income in taxes to support the green nonsense.
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