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Old 03-01-2011, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Interior AK
4,731 posts, read 9,942,023 times
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A very large portion of that .0000001% must be from Alaska... there are only 3 USDA/FDA inspected meat processing plants in the Interior and any meat that you want to sell has to be slaughtered and butchered there if it isn't sold on the hoof. So, anyone who hunts and doesn't want to process their own game, or anyone who buys an animal from a local farmer who doesn't want to process it themselves, or any one of those farmers who want to be able to sell the meat and not the animal as to go through them. And, yes, the one I go to knows my name and my neighbors' names, and even remembers how we like our stuff.

But I also remember, way back in the day (1970's), that my family used to be able to take their animals to the local family-run slaughterhouse and butcher even if they were later going to take the meat for sale at the local market... it was the way things were done. But over the years, more and more of these smaller, local, family owned farms and processing centers have been driven out of business by oppressive regulations and corporate expansion. Used to be that food was raised, processed and sold locally and there wasn't such a huge problem with recalls and contamination... the problems started when we started dumping everyone's product together and shipping it all over the place. No one wants to poison their neighbor, so they take care... but how much care is taken if faceless customer 146N37BB2S9 in some far-off place that can't be directly tied to what you're doing right now gets sick? It's all about accountability... and the more steps you add to the process, the less accountable each and every person in the chain becomes.
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Old 03-01-2011, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Interior AK
4,731 posts, read 9,942,023 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilson1010 View Post
If you can select your own animal and have it butchered by your neighbor, good for you. That is a great way to buy meat. About .000001% of the population can do that.
I think it's more appropriate to say that "only about .000001% of the population chooses to do that."

There's absolutely nothing precluding someone, say in a city, from selecting animal products from nearby farmers and processors. Or even from visiting those businesses to see the conditions and products and processes for themselves. We're only talking a 100 miles here... there is (or at least used to be) an agricultural rural area within 100 miles that supported every urban area.

The "USDA Approved" sticker is just a short-cut for people who don't want to do the legwork themselves to determine the quality or safety of their food... or that just don't care. The problem with that sticker, and relying solely on a regulation, is that regulations bred a "good enough" mentality and it makes us lax. Instead of doing the best we can and expecting the best we can get, we accept that the stamped product and whatever minimal requirements are necessary to achieve it are adequate.

It reminds me of a quote I once heard: What do you call a medical student who graduates the last in his class?.... DOCTOR.
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Old 03-02-2011, 06:12 AM
 
1,882 posts, read 4,617,795 times
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4 seasons - if there are only 3 in the interior, then they are all 3 in SW KS and NW Okla. because I know of 3 in that area that have inspectors.

I think there are more, but I am not 100% sure of that.

I do know they are watched like a hawk. Still about 1 local butcher/town in KS, but many are not open all the time. Inspectors come by and that is when you can take an animal in to get processed.

I'm all for the small farmer, I consider myself to be one, but economies of scale are there. It's no different than any other industry.

Take care, 4.
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Old 03-02-2011, 05:55 PM
 
5,019 posts, read 14,110,691 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilson1010 View Post
Local meat processors are well known for their unclean and unsafe conditions. These operations do not have full time on-site USDA inspectors (which large centers always do), are often family run operations where scrutiny by outsiders without a financial stake in the outcome is present, and are more profoundly affected by decisions affecting the bottom line.
Interesting how, when it comes to "food safety", even the die hard conservatives and libertarians suddenly become a huge fan of "big government".

We need a new flag. Instead of "don't tread on me" it should be "don't poison me".
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Old 03-02-2011, 05:59 PM
 
5,019 posts, read 14,110,691 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Cave Man View Post
I'm all for the small farmer, I consider myself to be one, but economies of scale are there. It's no different than any other industry.
Take care, 4.
Except...we are putting food into our bodies.

Other than big pharma and prostitution no other industries come to mind.
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Old 03-03-2011, 07:50 AM
 
1,882 posts, read 4,617,795 times
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Originally Posted by plaidmom View Post
Except...we are putting food into our bodies.

Other than big pharma and prostitution no other industries come to mind.
A large farmer farms the same as a small farmer, it's just the size of the equipment. What do you think happens on a big farm vs a small farm?
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Old 03-03-2011, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Cody, WY
10,420 posts, read 14,593,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plaidmom View Post
Interesting how, when it comes to "food safety", even the die hard conservatives and libertarians suddenly become a huge fan of "big government".
That's not true. Government food inspection accomplishes nothing. Without the government, processors would take care to make sure that they sold only safe foods. If they didn't, they wouldn't stay in business long. Consumers do make rational decisions without the aid of government.
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Old 03-03-2011, 08:17 AM
 
10,135 posts, read 27,462,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plaidmom View Post
Interesting how, when it comes to "food safety", even the die hard conservatives and libertarians suddenly become a huge fan of "big government".

We need a new flag. Instead of "don't tread on me" it should be "don't poison me".

Your attempt to personalize this discussion makes no sense. Why don't you stick to the topic? Is the topic here conservatives and big government? Apparently, you think it is.
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Old 03-04-2011, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Interior AK
4,731 posts, read 9,942,023 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Cave Man View Post
4 seasons - if there are only 3 in the interior, then they are all 3 in SW KS and NW Okla. because I know of 3 in that area that have inspectors.

I think there are more, but I am not 100% sure of that.

I do know they are watched like a hawk. Still about 1 local butcher/town in KS, but many are not open all the time. Inspectors come by and that is when you can take an animal in to get processed.

I'm all for the small farmer, I consider myself to be one, but economies of scale are there. It's no different than any other industry.

Take care, 4.
I meant Interior Alaska... I'm sure that there are a few more processors in the Mid-West USA

I agree that scale, automation, uniformity and centralization do give business benefit... up to a point. Unfortunately, once you reach a certain size the Law of Diminishing Returns kicks in and it starts to cost more than you're saving to get bigger. I think we're there already.

The biggest problems with centralization from a security perspective is that there is minimal redundancy and a lot of built-in dependencies. If you have 100 small farms and there's an outbreak of something, you still have several other farms to rely on. But if there is only one or two farms or processing plants, then you're screwed... even if only one farm is infected, everything gets contaminated at the plant because everything gets mixed together there. Plus, having only one plant means that everything has to be shipped to there and from there... you automatically add a dependency on transportation (gas goes up, everything goes up) and if that plant is disrupted (power failure, mechanical issues, terrorist attack, etc) everything grinds to a halt everywhere. It's a bottle neck and weak point... which is not exactly food security in my mind.

Ideally, both centralized/large/industrial/distributed and independent/small/family/local producers and processors should peacefully co-exist. Unfortunately, legislation caters to the big guys and needlessly prohibits the small guys. A large amount of the legislation and regulations makes it nearly impossible for the small guys to do business... that's not free market capitalism, not by a long shot. I'm all for ensuring safe food, but there's more than one way to do it... especially since the nail & hammer approach they're using right now isn't 100% effective either!
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Old 03-04-2011, 05:59 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,355 posts, read 26,481,472 times
Reputation: 11348
I prefer meat I've shot and butchered myself.

When that's not available, there's local places where I know the conditions, etc.

I've seen firsthand the big slaughterhouses. No thanks. If some city sort wants that "inspected" meat, go for it. I won't touch it.
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