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Yes, just like the current system of subsidizing ICE-driven cars,
GM bailout aside, explain.
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oil companies,
Yes but it's fractions of a penny per gallon.
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and the waste management firms who dispose of them. Same-same.
A car, even a dead car has value. I can take my dead car to the scrap yard and they will pay me for it, they in turn will sell this on the market. For that matter I can take all kinds of things to the scrap yard like TV's, appliances etc. I can get cash for this, there is people in my area that make a living collecting these items and selling them to the scrap yard. My understanding is that in California they have taxes the consumer must pay but that's what happens when you have government involvement in recycling, you take a product with value and suddenly it becomes an expense to the consumer.
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 38,774,074 times
Reputation: 7185
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Originally Posted by ron17571
So all the electric cars plug in and need energy from coal power plants?and we have enough of a problem with not having enough energy and ive read where theyre shutting down some coal plants.So tell me what is the upside of electric cars?
The upside is that converting the commuter force of, for example, Houston to a 100% electric fleet would eliminate incomprehensible volumes of combustion gases and refined fossil fuel demands. There would be an equally incomprehensible increase in the demand on the power grid and generation system, and to address this would require incomprehensible expenditures that would be passed directly to you, the end user and taxpayer, however, power can be generated on a large scale much more cleanly than millions of driveshafts can be turned.
Fuel cell technology is better than plug-in electric, but we aren't there yet. I really think that a better stop-gap is vehicles with 4-wheel electric traction motors powered by a small onboard natural gas generator, although an onboard gasoline/diesel generator would be much easier to implement and would have the full support of the entities in control of the existing infrastructure.
A car, even a dead car has value. I can take my dead car to the scrap yard and they will pay me for it, they in turn will sell this on the market. For that matter I can take all kinds of things to the scrap yard like TV's, appliances etc. I can get cash for this, there is people in my area that make a living collecting these items and selling them to the scrap yard.
I don't understand the point you're trying to make. Same thing with a dead battery or an old electric vehicle.
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My understanding is that in California they have taxes the consumer must pay but that's what happens when you have government involvement in recycling, you take a product with value and suddenly it becomes an expense to the consumer.
There's no sales tax in your state?
Not so long ago, I took advantage of a polluting vehicle subsidy in CA to "retire" a tiny compact that generated very small amounts of CO2 and also had low emissions. However, the computer system was dead and therefore it could not pass smog inspection. The state paid me more than the car was worth to retire it. Had it been 2008, I could've then put that money into a government-subsidized SUV purchase which would have generated much more pollution than my retired vehicle.
So I do favor the current tax breaks for more efficient hybrid vehicles over the subsidies of yesteryear which encouraged us to buy gas guzzlers.
...
On a related note, I was reading Automotive Trend's reviews of the Chevy Volt. Sounds very good. Including plug-in energy usage, the car gets 76+ mpg equivilent. The control system periodically runs the gas engine to avoid a stale gas scenario--even if you only drive 70-80 miles between battery chargings (the approximate battery range), while performance and saftey features get high ratings. Someone I know is planning on trading in their Cadillac for one.
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 38,774,074 times
Reputation: 7185
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Originally Posted by plwhit
And just where is all the money going to come from? Stop-gap vehicles????? Man, you must be one rich person.......
For the amount of money your solution would cost wouldn't it be more cost effective for a city to put in moving walkways????
The city could then do away with:
~ traffic lights (and their maintenance crews, the programmers etc)
~ traffic cops (and their vehicles)
~ meter maids
~ impound lots (and the people who staff them)
~ street maintenance (and all the repair crews)
But geez I am stupid, how much money will the city loose in revenue by doing this?
Nahhh, lets keep vehicles in the city...
Is this aimed at me? I'm assuming it is even though I'm not sure where it's coming from or why it makes sense.
The original question was about the "upside" of an electric fleet. The upside does exist, but it probably does not make economic sense to get there and if Washington gets involved by subsidizing a dead-end technology because there is an uninformed demand for it, the stage will be set for a disaster or at least the perpetuation of waste.
Hybrids, natural gas, electric plug-in... It's all "stop-gap" because none of it is going to get us where we need to be.
There's no reason that an electric traction motor vehicle with an onboard generator (which would essentially be a smaller internal combustion motor that ONLY powers a large alternator) need be prohibitively expensive and it wouldn't require any grid update, additional generation power, etc. etc. It would simply be a far more efficient, lower consumption, lower emission means of personal locomotion, particularly if you simply hook up a compressor to your home's natural gas supply and refill a pressure pod on your traction-motor vehicle. This would be easy and economic to phase in and the relative upside is far more tangible at a greatly reduced cost.
That's what I'm saying irrespective of what you're hearing.
I rent my home, and my landlord's not gonna like the idea of running a power cord to my car overnight everyday to charge it, not to mention I only have street parking. So this is a no go until we have electric charging stations everywhere, even 1 for every 10 gas stations.
Buy my own house? No thanks, not a great housing market now and it defeats the purpose and savings from getting an electric car.
Is this aimed at me? I'm assuming it is even though I'm not sure where it's coming from or why it makes sense.
The original question was about the "upside" of an electric fleet. The upside does exist, but it probably does not make economic sense to get there and if Washington gets involved by subsidizing a dead-end technology because there is an uninformed demand for it, the stage will be set for a disaster or at least the perpetuation of waste.
Hybrids, natural gas, electric plug-in... It's all "stop-gap" because none of it is going to get us where we need to be.
There's no reason that an electric traction motor vehicle with an onboard generator (which would essentially be a smaller internal combustion motor that ONLY powers a large alternator) need be prohibitively expensive and it wouldn't require any grid update, additional generation power, etc. etc. It would simply be a far more efficient, lower consumption, lower emission means of personal locomotion, particularly if you simply hook up a compressor to your home's natural gas supply and refill a pressure pod on your traction-motor vehicle. This would be easy and economic to phase in and the relative upside is far more tangible at a greatly reduced cost.
That's what I'm saying irrespective of what you're hearing.
If you want to get your panties in a wad this thread is NOT about electric fleets...
It was about hmmmmm
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are electric cars good
Not about traction motors, not about incomprehensible volumes of combustion not about incomprehensible increase in the demand on the power grid and generation system not about subsidizing a dead-end technology because there is an uninformed demand for it not about hook up a compressor to your home's natural gas supply and refill a pressure pod on your traction-motor vehicle.
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 38,774,074 times
Reputation: 7185
Quote:
Originally Posted by plwhit
If you want to get your panties in a wad this thread is NOT about electric fleets...
It was about hmmmmm Not about traction motors, not about incomprehensible volumes of combustion not about incomprehensible increase in the demand on the power grid and generation system not about subsidizing a dead-end technology because there is an uninformed demand for it not about hook up a compressor to your home's natural gas supply and refill a pressure pod on your traction-motor vehicle.
Just plain old electric cars..... capiche jimbob?
Are you trying to say "capice"?
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Originally Posted by ron17571
So all the electric cars plug in and need energy from coal power plants?and we have enough of a problem with not having enough energy and ive read where theyre shutting down some coal plants.So tell me what is the upside of electric cars?
The above is the question that originated the thread and the one I was responding to. As it happens, the upside of electric cars has quite a bit to do with eliminating incomprehensible volumes of combustion waste. Anything else to do with alternatives and downside is at least as germane as how rich a fellow I may be. No big deal, mayn. Perhaps many here should unwad those panties.
There's about 114,000 BTU's in a gallon of gasoline or 8.7 gallons per million BTU. If the subsidy is 3 cents per million BTU that's about 1/3 of a cent per gallon.
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There's no sales tax in your state?
In some states they have specific taxes on white goods, electronics, cars etc. These are used for recycling them, the point is it's a fee on something that has value.
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