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Old 04-22-2011, 09:25 AM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,869 posts, read 10,561,265 times
Reputation: 9527

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwaggy View Post
Exactly. Why should we subsidize ancient, proven technology?
Why should we subsidize anything? I'd rather have the wasted tax money in my pocket. Maybe I could afford to generate my own power via "unusable" forces such as wind or solar.

Interesting, even after being shown proof that windmills have existed for centuries and have been used to good advantage, you still deny their usefulness (through such clever literary techniques, no less). They used to present such technology and their use in second grade. I guess they're too busy nowadays with much more important matters like how to don a condom and how to change a ringtone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson513 View Post
Wind power is an excellent source of power . . . for a sail boat.
You are mistaken. Haven't you heard the recently revealed information that sail boats didn't work? Never happened. A fairytale devised by uninformed fiction authors. You need a gasoline motor for that. Ocean travel was not possible until we enlightened modern know-it-alls invented the internal combustion motors and such. Before that, man was standing in front of his cave with his hand draped over his brow, scanning the endless sea spread before him... wondering when the saviors of the world (that would be us) would come along and make it all better.


Quote:
Originally Posted by robertjohnson View Post
How many eagles and other birds of prey are killed each year by those spinning blades?
What is the projected number when they line every mountain top and are in every backyard?
DDT was baned world wide for simply threatening these birds. Costing millions of 3rd world lives each year I might add.
Hard to believe it's being seriously discussed by these envi types.
And how many animals are killed by cars and trucks every year? You're still driving, no? Is that also hard to believe?

Last edited by ChrisC; 04-22-2011 at 09:39 AM..
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Old 04-22-2011, 09:25 AM
 
Location: central Indiana
220 posts, read 387,069 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertjohnson View Post
How many eagles and other birds of prey are killed each year by those spinning blades?
What is the projected number when they line every mountain top and are in every backyard?
DDT was baned world wide for simply threatening these birds. Costing millions of 3rd world lives each year I might add.
Hard to believe it's being seriously discussed by these envi types.
If you are talking about sails like those used on the "Dutch" windmills, or multiple blades as used in the "farm" windmills, very, very few flying creatures lose their lives. Those windmills have a solid appearance when they spin. They are easily seen, and as therefore can be avoided.

The three blade prop jobs so beloved by current sales folk can be responsible for accidental death of birds and bats. Various approaches are being tested to reduce the probability of that happening. One series of wind turbines has been painted to show a spiral design while spinning. Various colors other than white have been suggested to reduce the attraction to insects which draw birds and bats.
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Old 04-22-2011, 11:21 AM
 
Location: DC
6,520 posts, read 6,453,689 times
Reputation: 3127
Quote:
Originally Posted by lollykoko View Post
If you are talking about sails like those used on the "Dutch" windmills, or multiple blades as used in the "farm" windmills, very, very few flying creatures lose their lives. Those windmills have a solid appearance when they spin. They are easily seen, and as therefore can be avoided.

The three blade prop jobs so beloved by current sales folk can be responsible for accidental death of birds and bats. Various approaches are being tested to reduce the probability of that happening. One series of wind turbines has been painted to show a spiral design while spinning. Various colors other than white have been suggested to reduce the attraction to insects which draw birds and bats.
Modern machine cause very few problems with birds. The wings rotate at about 10 RPM and are easily avoided. Most of the birds strike problems are older generation machine in places like the Altamont Pass. The supports are lattice, which the bird roost on and the blade rotate at high speed, which makes them hard to see.

If you're worried about birds, ban house cats.
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Old 04-23-2011, 06:28 AM
 
Location: Massatucky
1,166 posts, read 2,006,152 times
Reputation: 1799
I never denied their usefulness. Read my posts: I said they were not making a meaningful contribution to the grid and were under-performing in the application therein described. If I needed to pump water from my well to my cows and chickens in the barn or to grind corn into meal in my mill or charge a drop-in cassette battery for my KANDI car, I am all FOR it. I am against subsidizing it. There is a difference. Windmills DO work. They ARE useful. Just the grand scheme grid tied utility-based programs deep with subsidies and misguided notions, may be an enormous waste of precious resources. Having that opinion does not mean I am AGAINST wind power. I am making a statement about the direction we are heading with it being potentially problematic to the point it will fail to meet it supposed potential when real-world data is finally given an objective, hard-nosed analysis.
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Old 04-23-2011, 10:34 AM
 
Location: DC
6,520 posts, read 6,453,689 times
Reputation: 3127
There is no form of energy in widespread use that we don't subsidize -- nuclear, coal, nat gas, gasoline, etc. Claiming that that wind can't compete because it is subsidized neglects the subsidies other energy sources receive.
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Old 04-23-2011, 02:22 PM
 
29,988 posts, read 37,195,013 times
Reputation: 12760
I guess people just like to ignore the impirical evidence in the OP's linked study.

http://www.jmt.org/assets/pdf/wind-report.pdf (broken link)

Quote:
It is clear from this analysis that wind cannot be relied upon to provide any significant level of generation at any defined time in the future. There is an urgent need to re-evaluate the implications of reliance on wind for any significant proportion of our energy requirement.

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Old 04-24-2011, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Massatucky
1,166 posts, read 2,006,152 times
Reputation: 1799
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
I guess people just like to ignore the impirical evidence in the OP's linked study.

http://www.jmt.org/assets/pdf/wind-report.pdf (broken link)


Yes, greenies when faced with facts just go balinkashellzhitt!
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Old 04-24-2011, 01:15 PM
 
29,988 posts, read 37,195,013 times
Reputation: 12760
I should add to the above post that longer term energy storage from renewables, wind power included is the real problem that needs to be solved, IMO, if they are ever to become a dependable/reliable source of energy.
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