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Old 06-04-2011, 07:28 PM
 
15,924 posts, read 17,384,345 times
Reputation: 7641

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
So let me get this straight.

Now you are substituting Hybrids of the article above for Electrics, and then comparing that to make-believe -- (someone's who-knows projections from some years ago) -- again for Hybrids.

to . . .

declare Hydrogen a "winner" over Electrics?

okay dokey, that Kung Fu logic has my slow poke engineering analysis baffled.

You win this round.

This is like one of those Ford v. Chevy discussions, right?

Beam me up, Scotty. No intelligent life found.
Excuse me, I'm sorry the article discussed both pure and hybrid electric automobiles and upset you back into your name calling mode.

If you had actually read the entire article and noticed the source you would have seen a published date of May 26, 2011 @ 1:29PM by CNN:

Lies, damned lies, and electric vehicle forecasts

http://money.cnn.com/2011/05/26/auto...n=money_latest

BTW, if you want to debate Ford vs Chevy go here:

Ford vs Chevy...why is it still a debate?

Last edited by plwhit; 06-04-2011 at 07:48 PM..
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Old 06-04-2011, 08:16 PM
 
5,090 posts, read 9,833,351 times
Reputation: 3955
Quote:
Originally Posted by plwhit View Post
Excuse me, I'm sorry the article discussed both pure and hybrid electric automobiles and upset you back into your name calling mode.

If you had actually read the entire article and noticed the source you would have seen a published date of May 26, 2011 @ 1:29PM by CNN:

Lies, damned lies, and electric vehicle forecasts

Electric vehicle forecasters need to dial it back - May. 26, 2011
Okay dokey, that was the article you meant to link?

You follow you are still comparing real to fantasy (some salesguy's projections).

We do not do that in the real world.

But you are welcome to it.

Quote:
BTW, if you want to debate Ford vs Chevy go here:

Ford vs Chevy...why is it still a debate?
naw, not my thing at all.

Again, you are welcome to it.

Coke v. Pepsi
Ford v. Chevy
Hydrogen v. Electric -- got a new one, there. Super!

Goes great with a beer and a smoke.

We're cool.
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Old 06-04-2011, 08:40 PM
 
15,924 posts, read 17,384,345 times
Reputation: 7641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
Okay dokey, that was the article you meant to link?

You follow you are still comparing real to fantasy (some salesguy's projections).
No, it was just to factually prove your statement was wrong that's all:

Quote:
(someone's who-knows projections from some years ago)
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Old 06-05-2011, 06:10 AM
 
Location: DC
6,510 posts, read 6,434,844 times
Reputation: 3112
Quote:
Originally Posted by plwhit View Post
Seems that electric cars even in huge cities don't sell:

Why Electric Cars Aren

Electric cars? Sales are blah. But other 'green' cars surge. - CSMonitor.com

Oh, and here is an article on why electric cars are not as green as the auto companies say they are:

New report: Electric cars aren't green
It's kind of hard for electric cars to be "huge" since they have been available for less than a year in the US. I guess we'll just have to wait to see. As I said earlier the first year's production for Leaf is completely sold out. That's not a large number of cars, but Nissan has a lot of new suppliers to get coordinated.
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Old 06-05-2011, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
3,718 posts, read 4,774,540 times
Reputation: 1454
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
It depends upon how you make the hydrogen. If from natural gas then there is carbon monoxide or dioxide left over and natural gas is not renewable. If from electrolysis of water, it depends upon how you make the electricity. Coal -- not so renewable, wind -- renewable.
Does that include both fresh and salt waters?
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Old 06-05-2011, 11:04 AM
 
15,924 posts, read 17,384,345 times
Reputation: 7641
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
It's kind of hard for electric cars to be "huge" since they have been available for less than a year in the US. I guess we'll just have to wait to see. As I said earlier the first year's production for Leaf is completely sold out. That's not a large number of cars, but Nissan has a lot of new suppliers to get coordinated.
Read it again
Quote:
Seems that electric cars even in huge cities don't sell:
I wasn't talking about the number of cars.....

Look at the reasoning in the below polls on why electric cars are not popular.... electric cars change peoples driving habits.

Quote:
Nearly six of 10 Americans — 57% — say they won’t buy an all-electric car no matter the price of gas, according to a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll.
That’s a stiff headwind just as automakers are developing electrics to help meet tighter federal rules that could require their fleets to average as high as 62 miles per gallon in 2025. And President Obama has set a goal of a million electric vehicles in use in the U.S. by 2015.

The anti-electric sentiment unmasked by the poll shows that pure electrics — defined in the poll question as "an electric car that you could only drive for a limited number of miles at one time" — could have trouble getting a foothold in the U.S.

Such cars "are very much niche vehicles. They find acceptance among a core group of passionistas, but too many questions remain for mainstream consumers," says Edmunds.com CEO Jeremy Anwyl. He says consumers worry about range per charge, recharge time and battery replacement cost. Electrics also are priced thousands of dollars more than similar gasoline cars.
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/g...-electric-cars

http://www.ihatethemedia.com/america...nsive-gas-gets

Last edited by plwhit; 06-05-2011 at 11:13 AM..
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Old 06-05-2011, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Not where you ever lived
11,544 posts, read 25,934,615 times
Reputation: 6240
Some thoughts about alternate forms of power.

I don't think the electric car is useful in rural areas. due to the distance between towns and neighbors. I think I read something a while back that said Argentina runs on sugar. The Ford cars they sell run on it too - so we know how to do that. Thirty years ago I drove my friends Honda; it got 50mph. I think the country that stockpiles the most oil the fastest wins the oil war. I think we know how to process oil, too. I saw refineries in Texas down around*Midland I think.

As far as I know T. Boone Pickens constructed the largest windfarm in Sweetwater, Texas - where the wind always blows. I don't know if it was the first in Texas or not. There were a couple of windfarms between Palm Springs and LA in the early 1990s. I saw it after the Joshua Tree Earthquake.*I remember because I was in one of its aftershocks. It was a strange ride.

Back in the 1990's I recall Sen Harken of Iowa stating they werer using corn to fuel school buses.

I think we have the technology and the capibility to change our dependence on oil The question to me is not "Why don't we do it" as much as it is "What do we do with the millions of cars on the road that burn fossil fuel?" I can't afford to change out a n engine or*buy a vehicle that gives me 24MPG when I already have on that gives 23MPG and I don't drive it but a few miles every month. I only gas up 6-7 times a year as it is.
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Old 06-05-2011, 10:18 PM
 
15,924 posts, read 17,384,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linicx View Post
I think we have the technology and the capibility to change our dependence on oil The question to me is not "Why don't we do it" as much as it is "What do we do with the millions of cars on the road that burn fossil fuel?" I can't afford to change out a n engine or*buy a vehicle that gives me 24MPG when I already have on that gives 23MPG and I don't drive it but a few miles every month. I only gas up 6-7 times a year as it is.
Please point out what the above has to do with comparing electric car driving habits vs hydrogen car driving habits........

You bring up an excellent point, what to do with the millions of gasoline powered vehicles on the road, why not open up a new thread on the topic?
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Old 06-06-2011, 02:59 PM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,545 posts, read 18,396,261 times
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did cars always have the capability of travelling 400 miles, and then conveniently filling up to travel 400 more? did we flip a switch when the ICE was invented, and then assembly lines started cranking out cars, and all of a sudden people were driving cross country once per month?

i don't think so.

Is hydrogen a good source of energy for cars? YES
is electric a good source of energy for cars? YES

both will have a place going forward, I think. but as of june 6, 2011, the only one i can go out and purchase is an electric. the Nissan Leaf goes 80 miles. I don't have to change any of my driving habits if i get it. if i did, maybe i wouldn't buy one. or, maybe i would change my habits. or, maybe i'd wait until the Nissan Leaf that goes 100 miles, 150 miles, 200 miles, etc....or the one that charges more quickly. Or the one that is lighter.

you act as if the electric cars that are out today are the most advanced electric cars that will ever exist.

last i checked, no one is driving a model T down I-95....
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Old 06-06-2011, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Heartland Florida
9,324 posts, read 23,763,988 times
Reputation: 4900
Hydrogen alone is a horrible way to store fuel. Fuel cells are expensive and troublesome. We can get the fuel cells more available but we will have engines for years to come. I do not waste my time with hydrogen energy but prefer hydrocarbons- a much safer easier to use fuel. Algae can produce diesel, and we would be closer to that then hydrogen fuel cell cars. I already have used waste vegetable oil for years, and produce diesel from plastic waste and dry algae.
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