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Old 07-26-2011, 12:31 AM
 
Location: Tennessee/Michigan
28,192 posts, read 47,516,886 times
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FOR the prime minister, wind farms are the stars of Australia's clean energy future, but health problems from the turbine noise are forcing some neighbouring residents off the land.

At the opening of the Gunning Wind Farm in southern NSW last week, Prime Minister Julia Gillard championed the environmental benefits, job creation and economic benefits that would flow from getting on the wind power bandwagon.


Read more: Farmers: 'Wind turbines made us sick' | News.com.au
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Old 07-26-2011, 03:42 AM
 
39,194 posts, read 40,587,898 times
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Might be some truth to it. I can remember this one house I used to deliver coal too that had one of those devices that emitted a high pitched noise to keep bugs and animals away. If I was within 2 or 3 feet of that thing It was very nauseating.
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Old 07-26-2011, 03:17 PM
 
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Really curious on some details for those with experience.

Did you mean to say two to three FEET? from them? That does not make sense, yet -- typical minimum blades are 10 feet or more for a 10kW.

Thanks.

Sounds like the Aussie mills are producing the offensive in the very low frequency range? Below typical human hearing lower limits of 50 to 60 hz? Had heard earlier claims that was from the blade(s) crossing by the tower and creating a low freq sonic air compression. Seems like that should be easy enough to study and mitigate.
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Old 07-27-2011, 12:12 PM
 
39,194 posts, read 40,587,898 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
Did you mean to say two to three FEET? from them? That does not make sense, yet -- typical minimum blades are 10 feet or more for a 10kW.
Yes the device was right near the delivery window. First thing I would so is unplug it. I'm not trying to compare it to the type of noise generated by wind mills, just pointing out I have had a personal experience where sound is very disturbing.

The window and device was on a patio with chairs, they must of been deaf. I could never sit there for any length of time if that thing was operating. I'm not kidding when I say I would probably puke.
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Old 07-28-2011, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
17,748 posts, read 53,891,961 times
Reputation: 30011
"His doctor diagnosed him with electromagnetic spasms in his skull."


Ahh, yes. Murdoch reporters show their skill again.

Does HE have "electromagnetic spasms in his skull," or does the doctor? I think it was fourth grade where we learned not to write sentences where the objects missed the subjects.

And what in H... is "electromagnetic spasms in his skull." There is epilepsy, which can be cascading electrical discharges creating uncontrolled seizures, but elecroMAGNETIC spasms? Do spoons stick to his tongue? Does he suddenly point north? WTF kind of junk science have they invented down there?
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Old 07-28-2011, 11:19 AM
 
Location: DC
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These are large commercial turbines that rotate at about 10-12 rpm. Any noise is going to be subsonic. Looks more like a scam to get money from the farm operator.
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Old 07-29-2011, 10:25 AM
 
5,090 posts, read 9,829,259 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
These are large commercial turbines that rotate at about 10-12 rpm. Any noise is going to be subsonic. Looks more like a scam to get money from the farm operator.
There may be some legit portion to it. Not trying to debate it either way, but there is some history on this, but have not seen much legit research. Not saying that does not exist, either -- again, just have not seen it.

The blades are traveling fast at the blade tip. (typically 100 to 150 feet -- so low speed math says 2 X 100 X pi = 628 feet per rev X 10 rpm = 6280 feet per minute = over 70 mph) The higher speed version would be 150 feet and 12 rpm would be well over 100 mph.

Point being that is a 100 mph blade crossing over a rather wide tower (monopoles are rather wide), is likely have some serious air compression burps across the countryside. If you have several towers hitting burps at the same time and it could be some real harsh subsonic pulse going on. Seen any Environmental Impact studies on that? I have not.

While this is a "buy my book" site by someone . . . it covers some of this >>

Wind Turbine Syndrome • a book by Nina Pierpont MD, PhD


“Infrasound: The hidden annoyance of Industrial Wind Turbines” (France) Wind Turbine Syndrome Articles
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Old 07-29-2011, 11:01 AM
 
Location: DC
6,509 posts, read 6,427,712 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
There may be some legit portion to it. Not trying to debate it either way, but there is some history on this, but have not seen much legit research. Not saying that does not exist, either -- again, just have not seen it.

The blades are traveling fast at the blade tip. (typically 100 to 150 feet -- so low speed math says 2 X 100 X pi = 628 feet per rev X 10 rpm = 6280 feet per minute = over 70 mph) The higher speed version would be 150 feet and 12 rpm would be well over 100 mph.

Point being that is a 100 mph blade crossing over a rather wide tower (monopoles are rather wide), is likely have some serious air compression burps across the countryside. If you have several towers hitting burps at the same time and it could be some real harsh subsonic pulse going on. Seen any Environmental Impact studies on that? I have not.

While this is a "buy my book" site by someone . . . it covers some of this >>

Wind Turbine Syndrome • a book by Nina Pierpont MD, PhD


“Infrasound: The hidden annoyance of Industrial Wind Turbines” (France) Wind Turbine Syndrome Articles
Never heard any "bumps" in the field. There is a swoosh when you're close to the units but at any distance they are totally quiet. Certainly less than the noise a car makes driving by. BTW the blades for current generation machines are about 300 feet in diameter.
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Old 07-29-2011, 12:26 PM
 
5,090 posts, read 9,829,259 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
Never heard any "bumps" in the field. There is a swoosh when you're close to the units but at any distance they are totally quiet.
Sure, it is below our (human) hearing range. That is the point. These are lower frequencies like elephants and whales "speak." The lower the freq, generally the longer the distance it carries. We do not actually know that may or may not do to people, critters or other things around.

Look we are both EE's, both responsible for high dollar designs and decisions that everyone else has to live with -- for better or worse. All I am saying is we should probably give an Honest -- I Dunno -- when we Dunno. That is basic ethics, right?

Ignorance, or the lack of knowledge is not that big of deal. It is where all learning begins. And the more we study into any specialized topic -- as the saying goes -- We know more and more about less and less until we know everything about nothing at all.

I really do not think the Engineers responsible for the Titanic said, "let's make her sink and do not put on enough lifeboats." Same on the Kansas City Sky Bridge. And the Fukey Nukey in Japan. And another 1000 examples we could think up. All just unintended consequences.

But if any of them had more Simple, Honest, "I Dunnos" they might have gotten someone outside who did not necessarily agree on the means and methods to say -- "umm, this might not be such a great idea, let's check this out."

Quote:
Certainly less than the noise a car makes driving by. BTW the blades for current generation machines are about 300 feet in diameter.
If is sort of funny about the car noise and unintended consequences. Have you heard of blind people and the risk of getting hit by electric cars? Turns out the electric cars are so quiet, folks cannot hear them coming.

As for the math . . . . Well, come on.

Suppose this is what I get for doing math in an open forum?

The "2" portion of 2 X Radius X pi = Circumference is what makes the 100 or 150 foot blade length or Radius = 200 or 300 foot Diameter for the above math.

But you know that.
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Old 07-30-2011, 09:16 AM
 
Location: DC
6,509 posts, read 6,427,712 times
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I just didn't read your blade example closely enough. My bad.

As to the complaints. I think it's up to the people complaining to have some basis for "I'm sick, it's your fault." We know of no clinical reason why subsonic noise should make people sick and there's certainly a lot of it out there near airports, train tracks, subways, etc. I read an articles about this in the US. It turns out all the "sick" people were also the people not getting lease payments. Color me skeptical. I'll await the clinical trials.

It's not just blind people getting hit by EVs, it's everybody. Those things move like a ghost.
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