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Old 06-22-2012, 10:11 AM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,913,897 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big George View Post
Moderator cut: response to removed content
What RPM range do Formula One engine run?Moderator cut: inflammatory It's at least 5x the RPMs of regular car & truck engines. Now... Care to tell me how/why their wear has ANYTHING to do with ethanol?

Moderator cut: inflammatory
That is irrelevant to the point I am making.

The issue is longevity, the lines, and water collection.

Those Formula One engines are constantly maintained, something that is unreasonable to obtain in a standard engine.

That doesn't even get into the issues of the fact that you burn more fuel with these blends. It is less efficient to use them.

Last edited by MissingAll4Seasons; 06-22-2012 at 04:18 PM..
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:17 AM
 
2,729 posts, read 5,348,789 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
That is irrelevant to the point I am making.

The issue is longevity, the lines, and water collection.

Those Formula One engines are constantly maintained, something that is unreasonable to obtain in a standard engine.

That doesn't even get into the issues of the fact that you burn more fuel with these blends. It is less efficient to use them.
No, that is NOT irrelevant! The issue with Formula One engines is FRICTION and WEAR.

You're intentionally running away from the real problem. FUEL has nothing to do with WEAR. It has to do with delivery and combustion.


Modern automobile and truck engines can run perfectly fine on Ethanol - even E85. Period.
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:19 AM
 
833 posts, read 1,708,768 times
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The purpose of ethanol never was lower prices at the pump.

The purpose was less dependent on middle east oil
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:31 AM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,913,897 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big George View Post
No, that is NOT irrelevant! The issue with Formula One engines is FRICTION and WEAR.

You're intentionally running away from the real problem. FUEL has nothing to do with WEAR. It has to do with delivery and combustion.


Modern automobile and truck engines can run perfectly fine on Ethanol - even E85. Period.

No, the main problem with the fuel which is widely known is its water attraction issues and the erosion of the lines and tanks. That is the entire point, but you keep wanting to focus on friction which was never my point. Even in the first post I responded to, I mentioned they are consistently maintained and refit which through the power of literacy, you should have been able to infer what I was talking about.

Modern vehicles are better suited to run the 10% blends, but only the newer ones are rated E85 for the 15%. Even so, the problem with water collection and erosion remains, not to mention the fact that your gas mileage goes down using ethanol making it inefficient as compared to fuel without it.

But hey, who cares about cost and efficiency in the "green" age! It is all about "clean" and everything else gets thrown out the window.
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Old 06-22-2012, 11:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwolf fan View Post
The purpose of ethanol never was lower prices at the pump.

The purpose was less dependent on middle east oil
And, in theory, that is an excellent purpose. But you're fighting against some pretty powerful forces (the oil industry), in addition to the fact that ethanol is still a developing industry.
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Old 06-22-2012, 11:33 AM
 
2,729 posts, read 5,348,789 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
No, the main problem with the fuel which is widely known is its water attraction issues and the erosion of the lines and tanks. That is the entire point, but you keep wanting to focus on friction which was never my point. Even in the first post I responded to, I mentioned they are consistently maintained and refit which through the power of literacy, you should have been able to infer what I was talking about.

Modern vehicles are better suited to run the 10% blends, but only the newer ones are rated E85 for the 15%. Even so, the problem with water collection and erosion remains, not to mention the fact that your gas mileage goes down using ethanol making it inefficient as compared to fuel without it.

But hey, who cares about cost and efficiency in the "green" age! It is all about "clean" and everything else gets thrown out the window.
Ethanol is known to be hard on certain types of plastic, and certain types of rubber.

So... Don't use those materials in the fuel systems of cars & trucks.

Problem solved!
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Old 06-22-2012, 12:47 PM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,913,897 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big George View Post
Ethanol is known to be hard on certain types of plastic, and certain types of rubber.

So... Don't use those materials in the fuel systems of cars & trucks.

Problem solved!

What about all of the cars and trucks that already contain those materials in their fuel systems already? Even other materials have issues (fiberglass tanks for one). So, now you have a fuel that gets less gas mileage than the non-mixture (you ever wonder why "big oil' doesn't have a problem with the blends? They make more money by doing this) and requires all vehicles to use more expensive fuel systems to accommodate it and an existing infrastructure that is nowhere near a level of being able to use it without degrading existing vehicles, all for what? A cleaner burn to which can not significantly be identified in its result as it concerns the very reason it is being pushed? We haven't even gotten into the problems with the grain market concerning this either.

We need to stop feeding this garbage political activist solutions and start thinking more practical.
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Old 06-22-2012, 12:51 PM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,913,897 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big George View Post
And, in theory, that is an excellent purpose. But you're fighting against some pretty powerful forces (the oil industry), in addition to the fact that ethanol is still a developing industry.
That is becoming a tired old argument as an excuse for poorly thought out solutions. I swear, anytime someone mentions a problem with the "activist solution of the day", their response is "well, it is because BIG OIL is working against us!". Did you ever think that the reason there are so many objections to certain purposed solutions is because the solution is impractical both technologically and economically?

I am all for cleaner and more efficient, but if you throw out practical and economical while doing so, then there is absolutely no point.
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Old 06-22-2012, 12:59 PM
 
2,729 posts, read 5,348,789 times
Reputation: 1785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
What about all of the cars and trucks that already contain those materials in their fuel systems already? Even other materials have issues (fiberglass tanks for one). So, now you have a fuel that gets less gas mileage than the non-mixture (you ever wonder why "big oil' doesn't have a problem with the blends? They make more money by doing this) and requires all vehicles to use more expensive fuel systems to accommodate it and an existing infrastructure that is nowhere near a level of being able to use it without degrading existing vehicles, all for what? A cleaner burn to which can not significantly be identified in its result as it concerns the very reason it is being pushed? We haven't even gotten into the problems with the grain market concerning this either.

We need to stop feeding this garbage political activist solutions and start thinking more practical.
"Garbage political activist solutions"? Moderator cut: personal attack

Ethanol-blend fuels have been being used in virtually all states for DECADES. There were a FEW vehicles that had a FEW problems initially, but those problems have been GROSSLY EXAGGERATED, to the point of being outright lies.


By the way, I drive a 30-year old Volvo. It makes no difference in mileage whether I burn 89 Octane E10, or 87 Octane non-ethanol fuel. No difference in mileage, no difference in performance. The only difference is that the non-ethanol gas is more expensive.

And don't even presume to lecture me about how ethanol is going to destroy my 30-year old car that has over 300,000 miles on it.

Last edited by MissingAll4Seasons; 06-22-2012 at 03:39 PM.. Reason: removed personal attack
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Old 06-22-2012, 01:00 PM
 
833 posts, read 1,708,768 times
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All gasoline that was delivered to my farm had 10% ethanol.

Two tractors were diesel, but an old Farmall M ( WAS GAS )

I parked the tractor from Nov 1 til April 1 and never drained the 10% ethanol gasoline.

April 1 she started right up with no problems.

Year after year.
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