Paper or Plastic?.......What A Joke!!!! (Prius, climate, cleaner, economy)

[Digital_Duck]

Originally Posted by Lamplight

Okay, I think I see your point. Your original post just didn't seem to relate all of that, at least not to me. Well it does, but the line about Communist Hungary just wasn't obvious to me at all.

I have a direct source for some Hungarian communism info - I married her

Also - its difficult for this two finger tapping to write enough out to make a point well ...

[theatergypsy]

Originally Posted by RalphKNS

I would be surprised for this to occur.

The only legit criticism I could see being levied is that the system would inconvenience the elderly or disabled, not the poor per se.

If the "elderly" and the "disabled" are capable of pushing the cart around the grocery store while shopping for their food, they would certainly be able to return the cart to get their quarter back. If they are so infirm as to be unable to do this, they would in all likelihood be accompanied by someone who would return the cart for them.

I'm 76 years old. I can walk from my parking spot to insert my quarter and get the cart out of the rack. I get what I need, pay for it, bag my stuff (Aldi doesn't have baggers) and after I unload my cart into my car, I push the cart back to the rack and get my quarter back. On occasion, someone just arriving will approach me, hand me a quarter, and take my cart, saving me the return trip. Sometimes, if I see an "elderly" person with an empty cart, I'll "buy" theirs and save them the walk.

It flies in the face of logic to assume that a quarter deposit would be a hardship for anyone. Of course, there are people who get off on picking nits.

[CarolinaWoman]

Plastic bags was suppose to be the great savior when introduced at grocery stores long ago. It took about 20+ years to become a plastic bag disaster ... same with bottled water ... all those plastic water bottles will be here for a 1000+ years. Now the great savior is the squiggly fluorescent light bulb ... in 20+ years the landfills are going to be screaming about mercury from the bulbs.

[WhipperSnapper 88]

Originally Posted by theatergypsy

Yes, Aldi does use the coin system for their carts. (Aldi is a division of Trader Joe's). There is also a Shop-Rite in Manahawkin NJ that uses the coin system. It's such a pleasure not to have to dodge carts or have wind blow one into the side of your vehicle.
And since ALDI doesn't bag your groceries, you don't have to answer "Paper or plastic?"

Well once again, if the vast majority of Americans weren't such lazy pigs, we wouldn't have the "rogue cart in the parking lot" problem to begin with.

Originally Posted by CarolinaWoman

Plastic bags was suppose to be the great savior when introduced at grocery stores long ago. It took about 20+ years to become a plastic bag disaster ... same with bottled water ... all those plastic water bottles will be here for a 1000+ years. Now the great savior is the squiggly fluorescent light bulb ... in 20+ years the landfills are going to be screaming about mercury from the bulbs.

Just goes to show you these enviremental folks dont have a clue what they are talking about and are incapable of doing the math for the long run outcome

[dclamb3]

Over the last 20-25 years, I've held opinions on all three sides of this debate:

paper, plastic, or reusable (and I may very well change my mind again ).

I was pro-paper over reusable when our recyclables were required to be set out in paper bags. The city now allows us to put them in plastic tubs (yay!).

But can someone please tell me how:

A. using reusable bags, of which I have many, and then buying plastic trash bags and plastic dog poo bags is better than....

B. getting a free 'much-thinner-than-a-trash-bag-so-it-will-decompose-quicker' grocery bag, and using them as garbage bags and dog poo bags?

I donate, I reuse, I recycle, and I typically compost (depending on where I live), but I would love to be able to not have to put what garbage still remains in a bag just to toss it out.

But if the garbage co. won't take trash if it's not in a bag, how is using a thinner free grocery bag (amusing it's an eco-friendly bag) worse for the environment than a thicker purchased trash bag?

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by dclamb3

... But can someone please tell me how:

A. using reusable bags, of which I have many, and then buying plastic trash bags and plastic dog poo bags is better than....

B. getting a free 'much-thinner-than-a-trash-bag-so-it-will-decompose-quicker' grocery bag, and using them as garbage bags and dog poo bags?

I donate, I reuse, I recycle, and I typically compost (depending on where I live), but I would love to be able to not have to put what garbage still remains in a bag just to toss it out.

But if the garbage co. won't take trash if it's not in a bag, how is using a thinner free grocery bag (amusing it's an eco-friendly bag) worse for the environment than a thicker purchased trash bag?

I dont get it.

Last night I was at our Farmers Market selling some of our produce, and two customers were talking about separating their stuff for recycling. They live in a city, where I guess they do that stuff.

But the garbage truck that comes through my township picks it all up and throws it into one cylinder where it gets compacted together. Then hauls it to a land-fill where it all gets buried.

I separate the burnable stuff, as we use that in our woodstove for heat. But the rest all goes into a garbage can, and eventually into the land-fill.

[dclamb3]

Originally Posted by forest beekeeper

I dont get it.

Last night I was at our Farmers Market selling some of our produce, and two customers were talking about separating their stuff for recycling. They live in a city, where I guess they do that stuff.

But the garbage truck that comes through my township picks it all up and throws it into one cylinder where it gets compacted together. Then hauls it to a land-fill where it all gets buried.

I separate the burnable stuff, as we use that in our woodstove for heat. But the rest all goes into a garbage can, and eventually into the land-fill.

I get where you're coming from. I've been in that same situation. I have lived in several states, and many, many more cities within the same state. I think I've experienced nearly every type of recycling system a city could possibly have over the last few decades.

I've lived in areas that were so rural a man with a flatbed truck picks up our trash using the same truck to get our recyclables and goodness only knows how he can figure out which is which when he gets back to the dump (he probably can't).

I've lived in areas where they have curbside trash pick up, but recycling has to be taken to large bins in parking lots throughout the city.

I've living in areas where the recycling had to be separated, could only handle certain grades of items (1s, 2s, 3s, etc), and had to be put out in paper bags (only for them to get wet from rain and have half your recyclables washed into gutters and then into the Bay - fabulous).

I've lived in areas with such advanced recycling systems that you can toss nearly anything into your personal recycling bucket, not bag , and it gets taken away in a separate shinny white recycling truck.

With that said, I can see how someone living in a place where their city has a less advanced recycling system would question the point all together (I know I did when I lived in those areas).

Whether or not to recycle could be debated until the cows come home, and a debate I try to stay out of as it's a personal decision, just like every other decision in life, and you can't judge others (not that you are, just people as a whole) for what's right for them. And I don't. (Though I try not to, I do, however, admittedly judge others who recite articles about a yogi's philosophy on the environment and then don't even recycle because they admit they're too lazy, not because their city has a terrible recycling system - but now I'm on a tangent about a personal experience not related to this thread).

However, I ponder the difference between using one type of plastic bag over another if your city requires trash be in bags. If anyone has input on how purchasing trash bags makes sense over using the thinner free grocery bags, please fill me in.

[dodgerkim]

In Southern California, most stores only have the option of plastic or buying a reusable bag. I have brought a reusable bag but it is useless. When I go groccery shopping, I buy a lot of things. I would probably need to purchase 20 reusable bags to meet my needs. Not only that, i would have to do that for each store I go to. Instead of having to deal with this hassle, I take the plastic and when I have finished putting the grocceries away I put all the plastic bags in a drawer. I then use the plastic bags for a variety of uses. i mostly use them to put my cans and bottles in and use the bags as trash bags when I am in the car.

[smartalx]

Weird. Where I come from reusable bags are the same size as paper bags. When you go shopping do you end up filling 30 plastic bags? Here in Houston they are about half the volume of reusable bags.

[KittenSparkles]

There is an excellent documentary on this topic (plastic bags and plastic in packaging) called Bag It. I happened to catch it on the Documentary Channel recently. I learned a lot.

It depressed the h*ll out of me, though. Especially the way that all this plastic is affecting birds and animals in and near the ocean.

For those looking for a great re-usable shopping bag, check out Envirosax - they roll up to less than a deck of cards and hold 44 lbs. Great for travel, too.