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Old 11-14-2011, 02:39 PM
 
29,988 posts, read 37,039,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSparkle928 View Post
Huh... (IMHO)

I always felt that saving dollars and being efficient (in the green way) are relatively uncorrelated.
Four choices:
1). saving $$ (i.e. frugal) and being efficient
2). not saving $$ (spending) and being efficient
3). saving $$ (frugal) and not being efficient
4). not saving $$ (spending) and not being efficient

Examples:

For #2, I put in a geothermal system (could use solar panels too). Not saving $$ (these things cost a bundle. My time to break even is 18 years), but I am being efficient.
For #3, I could go buy cheap sulfur-laden coal and live in an uninsulated shanty for close to nothing, but also trash the environment and not be efficient.
For #4, I could go buy a mansion for just me and a 5lb dog (been there, done that).

For #1, it is easier said than done, without potentially a major impact on lifestyle.

Just my opinions.
Considering the thread topic and not hijacking it I would consider the OP's potential use of SIPs for roofing while using authentic log construction for the walls as fitting into #4. Different choices by the OP's chosen construction methods could change that to any of #1-#3, IMO. YMMV

I have a GSHP (lateral loops) and my payback should only be about 7-9 years (figuring in the federal energy tax credit). Eighteen year payback would have been a "no-go" for me, period. YMMV
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Old 11-14-2011, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Destrehan, Louisiana
2,192 posts, read 6,198,419 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSparkle928 View Post
Totally agree.

Energy Savers: The R-Value of Wood

Wood is a rather poor insulator. If you look at a house on a cold day (with some frost on the roof), you can see exactly where the rafters are, because the are warmer than the insulated spaces between the rafters.
If wood is a poor insulator then why is it warmer at the rafters than the insulated area between them?

By the way I agree with you but it's warmer between the rafters where the insulation is.


busta
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Old 11-15-2011, 06:19 AM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,179 posts, read 9,373,871 times
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I am a little confused, when it talks about wind coming in and batting not being an insulator against the wind. The exterior structure should refuse the wind initially, should it not?

We live in a 100-year-old house, with old, heavy, leaded floor-to-ceiling windows (except on the north side, where the windows are tiny) and a sturdy exterior; batting and plaster (not drywall) walls, and it is extremely secure against wind. The 'settling' of the windows has been covered by storm windows and sturdy frames. The only wind we get is on the "new" construction, with the styrofoam panel insulation and drywall... and that was repaired by attending to the exterior construction and sealing the drywall, thereby making the 'dead space' of the insulation impermeable.

Seems to me that anything that permits a totally 'dead air' space would insulate; it just has to be constructed properly.
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Old 11-15-2011, 11:40 AM
 
3,252 posts, read 6,295,050 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bustaduke View Post
If wood is a poor insulator then why is it warmer at the rafters than the insulated area between them?

By the way I agree with you but it's warmer between the rafters where the insulation is.


busta
----------------------------------------------------------------

As I stated, looking at the roof from the outside on a cold (frost-ridden) day, you can see on an asphalt roof where the rafters are, because the lower R-value wood melts the frost.
I am saying that these areas are warmer outside, which means there is more heat loss through the wood than the insulated portions in-between the rafters. The R-value of wood is about 1.4. The R-value of fiberglass is about 3.1.
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Bend Or.
1,126 posts, read 2,442,915 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCGranny View Post
I am a little confused, when it talks about wind coming in and batting not being an insulator against the wind. The exterior structure should refuse the wind initially, should it not?

We live in a 100-year-old house, with old, heavy, leaded floor-to-ceiling windows (except on the north side, where the windows are tiny) and a sturdy exterior; batting and plaster (not drywall) walls, and it is extremely secure against wind. The 'settling' of the windows has been covered by storm windows and sturdy frames. The only wind we get is on the "new" construction, with the styrofoam panel insulation and drywall... and that was repaired by attending to the exterior construction and sealing the drywall, thereby making the 'dead space' of the insulation impermeable.

Seems to me that anything that permits a totally 'dead air' space would insulate; it just has to be constructed properly.
The problem lies in the totally dead air space, which it is not. To be totally dead it needs to be in Vacuum. otherwise there is a lot of air movement through and inside the walls. Insulation works by trying to separate little airpockets to stop air flow. This is why foams work so well. Cladding and trim invariable allow more air through them than you can imagine. A very small air leak can travel through the walls and cool the whole wall.
An old house with plaster walls is especially inefficient as there is a direct path from Plaster, to lath, to studs to the cladding. I am assuming Insulation was addded afetr wards because it typically was not used back then.
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