Organic Foods: For people with more dollars than sense (paper, farm, vs)

[hueyeats]

My kind of organic food will be my own grown produce grown right from my garden to be served on my table... very very organic (a real plant life = organic too) indeed.

[seattlenextyear]

I think you're confusing "bacteria" with "pesticides". Bacteria aren't all bad: healthy soil has MORE bacteria: decomposing things and turning nitrogen in the air into a form that plants can use. Organic food, being grown in much healthier, living soil, will have more bacteria on it.

When your body fights bacteria, which are living organisms, it forms antibodies. When your body comes into contact with toxics, it doesn't form antibodies. Your liver, kidneys and lungs try to detoxify the chemical and remove it from the body. Whereas exposure to low doses of healthy bacteria can strengthen your immune system, exposure to more chemicals weakens your system's defenses.

Originally Posted by hueyeats

Does no good for Steve Jobs one bit.

Another thing... all nature produces food that is organic, so long it is plant related non man processed etc... or OK... shape related... eg. kidney.

One cannot guarantee no contaminates (by soil, fertilizer etc... or worse, after the growing part).
Eg. The food handler at the organic restaurant who has hep B & while handling has a hole in the gloves... or that sick organic buyer customer whom had put down that apple that you put in your own basket & your lazy husband later eat w/o washing since its organic, or that hand of the cashier who handled the fertilizer the customer in front just bought, your bag of apples happens to burst from the bags & she has to quickly pick up off the register line w/ that same hands... etc.

How clean can we really be???

And if we become so clean... what other super bugs do we create???
Like the abuse of antibodies situation... thus own body can no longer fight the uncleanliness nor take any "corruption" from bacteria / poison / contaminate no matter how mild.
Is it wise to take everything to extreme so we take away the body's capability to fight / purge "any" exposure to the traces of "poisons"????

You know why travelers are urged to carry bottled water abroad right???
The locals are "used to" the bacteria in the water while a foreigner is not.... thus the upset stomach.
Even the ancient egyptian king know to train smaller does of poison in his system so he can ward off a large dose of poison... or how anti-venom are created by shooting the venom into the horse to create a natural venom fighting agent???

The question is... really... is it that good for you???

For the kind of money one spent on it... should the so called "organic foods" then come w/ a guarantee????

Really... foods for thought.

[uggabugga]

interesting.

Study: Organic yields 25% lower than conventional farming - CNN.com

but it's not necessarily true across all crops:

Organic cereals and vegetables fared worst with yields 26% and 33% respectively lower than conventional agriculture.

But other organic produce fared much better.

Legumes (e.g. soybeans) were 11% lower while fruits were almost comparable with conventional farming with yields just 3% lower.

[hueyeats]

Originally Posted by seattlenextyear

I think you're confusing "bacteria" with "pesticides". Bacteria aren't all bad: healthy soil has MORE bacteria: decomposing things and turning nitrogen in the air into a form that plants can use. Organic food, being grown in much healthier, living soil, will have more bacteria on it.

When your body fights bacteria, which are living organisms, it forms antibodies. When your body comes into contact with toxics, it doesn't form antibodies. Your liver, kidneys and lungs try to detoxify the chemical and remove it from the body. Whereas exposure to low doses of healthy bacteria can strengthen your immune system, exposure to more chemicals weakens your system's defenses.

No I did not.
When I said bacteria, I meant bacteria.

Now when it comes to pesticide... even before they "know" & realized pesticide is bad for you... my IL's are eating it. The reasons why they are still healthy, alive & well is not because they eat the pesticide but because they actually is not lazy to have to "clean" their product before eating it.

Oh and plus...

Plants, animals & us from "nature" patented the word "Organic" before some humans who strike that light bulb & says "heyyy... I can make money off this word" did (talk about a successful example of capitalism that "labeling" / "branding" did)!!!

Else you would question...
How did man-kind survived till now before buying into all this scams????

Like I said and again I shall repeat... Steve Jobs. The price he paid for that organic lifestyle did not help him any... why would the rest of the sheeps think it will???? Its no miracle drug / a "proven" way??? If there is no such guarantees = why even bother????

P.S. My very own dear sister is fighting cancer for her life today also believes in a healthy organic lifestyle, she is vegan. Sorry to tell the truth but it really didn't help her any (I pray the chemo will though).
Lance Armstrong fought cancer, is a healthy example... I am sure he eat steaks & meals from traveling & not every meals "ate out" is guaranteed so called "organic".
Not to mention me & my hubby's grandparents lived till 80 plus, 90... THEY sure don't buy into "organic" labels because that trend wasn't "available" then, and during depression; one should be considered *lucky* they are eating at all!!!!!

Seriously, why put your hard earned cash into some smuck's wallet???
But hey... its your money after all. I'm sure NOT wasting mine!

[MissingAll4Seasons]

Originally Posted by uggabugga

interesting.

Study: Organic yields 25% lower than conventional farming - CNN.com

but it's not necessarily true across all crops:

Interesting article and published research report.

According to the report they ascribe the higher yields to synthetic amendments used in conventional farming, particularly rapid-release high nitrogen fertilizers and pH balancing conditioners.

There are several guano, blood and urine-based organic fertilizers that are comparable to synthetic high-nitrogen fertilizers (9-14% N). The release rates are slightly lower since they are more stable compounds and do not dissolve as quickly... which may not necessarily be a bad thing since highly soluble nitrogen washes away with irrigation and rainfall (causing water pollution), and too much nitrogen can burn plants.

There is virtually no difference in concentration and release rates between synthetic and organic pH balancing conditioners like lime (calcium) and sulfur. There are organic solutions used, such as bone meal or peat moss, that are specifically selected because they release even more slowly and contain other beneficial properties.

So, if the researcher's assumptions are valid, perhaps the problem is related to method not substance. It may be possible to produce the same yields by applying one of rapid-release liquid organic nitrogen fertilizers as periodic side-dressings (similar to conventional method) rather than the more typical method of using slower releasing nitrogen sources. Definitely more info needed.

Verena Seufert, the McGill University researcher who co-authored the report states:

What we should do is try to address the issues and build systems that achieve high organic yields.

One thing that should be noted is that while high-nitrogen availability can increase yields by promoting rapid growth, this rapid growth leads to weaker plants as the cell walls are thinner and contain more water which leads to increased pests and disease, increasing needs for pesticides and other corrective measures. So, we may be sacrificing quality for higher yields while taking on the burden of more inputs and efforts. Definitely more info needed.

But Megan Kintzer, director of development at the Rodale Institute, an organic farm and research center in Pennsylvania, says that organic farming is a more sustainable system.


"There is less energy use from organic farming, and the conventional systems produce 40% more greenhouse gases," Kintzer said.

[zthatzmanz28]

For all those folks with more money than taste buds, be aware of the current research...


New Evidence Settles a Lingering Question - Is Organic Food More Nutritious?

The TRUTH about eating "ORGANICS"

[uggabugga]

Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28

For all those folks with more money than taste buds, be aware of the current research...


New Evidence Settles a Lingering Question - Is Organic Food More Nutritious?

The TRUTH about eating "ORGANICS"

current research? from 2008?

The new report is published as a "State of Science Review" by The Organic Center and is entitled "New Evidence Confirms the Nutritional Superiority of Plant-based Organic Foods."

yeah, there's an unbiased source

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28

For all those folks with more money than taste buds, be aware of the current research...


New Evidence Settles a Lingering Question - Is Organic Food More Nutritious?
The TRUTH about eating "ORGANICS"

Nutrition (not to mention cleanliness or bacteria or any other silly deflection brought up in this thread) isn't the issue with organic vs. conventional food, at least not for me: it's the introduction of chemicals -- some definitely harmful, others probably and still others possibly -- into my body. No thank you.

[hamellr]

Originally Posted by hueyeats

Else you would question...
How did man-kind survived till now before buying into all this scams????

Like I said and again I shall repeat... Steve Jobs. The price he paid for that organic lifestyle did not help him any... why would the rest of the sheeps think it will???? Its no miracle drug / a "proven" way??? If there is no such guarantees = why even bother????

P.S. My very own dear sister is fighting cancer for her life today also believes in a healthy organic lifestyle, she is vegan. Sorry to tell the truth but it really didn't help her any (I pray the chemo will though).
Lance Armstrong fought cancer, is a healthy example... I am sure he eat steaks & meals from traveling & not every meals "ate out" is guaranteed so called "organic".
Not to mention me & my hubby's grandparents lived till 80 plus, 90... THEY sure don't buy into "organic" labels because that trend wasn't "available" then, and during depression; one should be considered *lucky* they are eating at all!!!!!

Anecdotal evidence to disprove a healthy lifestyle does not help your argument.

What cancer does your sister have? Steve Jobs had pancreatic cancer, which only about 4% of those diagnosed with, survive.

What Causes Pancreatic Cancer?

"Pancreatic cancer is fundamentally a disease caused by damage to the DNA (mutations). "

The only relation to food in pancreatic cancer is:

"Diet: Diets high in meats, cholesterol fried foods and nitrosamines may increase risk, while diets high in fruits and vegetables reduce risk. Folate may be protective."

Either way, I eat Organic because it tastes better. Most fruits and vegetables at the stores have been bred for longevity and ease of shipping, not for taste. It's like comparing home made bread vs. store bought bread. The home made stuff is going to be better hands down. Go buy a few Organic tomatoes and try them against the normal beefsteak tomatoes, just cut them into slices and eat. Do it blindfolded. If you can't tell a difference between the two, then you need to go see a doctor ASAP! Odds are you've an seve undiagnosed disease.

[Ruth4Truth]

Who said organic food is more nutritious? It's not about nutrition, it's about avoiding agricultural chemicals, and in meats and dairy--hormones. In chicken it's about avoiding hormones and arsenic. My doctors for decades now have insisted I buy organic only.