Organic Foods: For people with more dollars than sense (plastic, greenhouse, difference)

[joe moving]

farms I buy from are generally not certified organic . They do things like crop rotation, cover crops, composting, and do not use any synthetic or chemical fertilizers , pesticides, etc. They don't use the word organic or get certified. It is tougher when you're buying from larger operations (say for rice, flour, etc.), these folks are usually going to be certified, because these operations are not just selling to some local folks who know how they run things. they might be selling to larger places, like an organic dairy farm.

If you look at this at the chicken level.....and I am basing thing on my knowledge which could be slightly off one way or another but you get the idea.

An organic egg could be from a de'beack-ed hen, in a tiny cage with many other chickens, never see the light of day but fed organic feed (I don't know that there are any requirements for space constraints or outdoor access for an organic bird, I believe that is "free range" which is also misleading).

A non organic chicken could spend its life pecking around in the grass and dirt outside in the sun, being fed food scraps.

Do a fat / nutrient analysis on those two.

of course what does that leave you with
1) Grow your own stuff
2) Have your own chickens
3) Buy local when you can and you know and like the farmer
4) Otherwise buy organic if that is what you want to do

Another example we just bought a bulk bag of turtle beans. WE could buy from a farmer in Vermont who uses pesticides or an organic farm out in California or something. Tough decision but I don't know this farmer in VT, but we know they use some pesticide, NOT because he's NOT certified organic, but because the store who vetted him out did the research for us. We went with the organic until we can go talk to this guy and ask him about how he does things, but in general, NOT certified organic, doesn't mean it's not "organic."

Of course there is the whole thing that so much "regular" food is artificially low in price due to subsidies. So there you have your cheap everything and it makes the price of real food look so much higher.

If you don't want to make growing and eating and or buying your food a big part of your life then you can just spend more money and go to whole foods and buy certified organic everything.
but we think there is a lot more to it than that.

[whirnot]

Originally Posted by joe moving

farms I buy from are generally not certified organic . They do things like crop rotation, cover crops, composting, and do not use any synthetic or chemical fertilizers , pesticides, etc. They don't use the word organic or get certified. It is tougher when you're buying from larger operations (say for rice, flour, etc.), these folks are usually going to be certified, because these operations are not just selling to some local folks who know how they run things. they might be selling to larger places, like an organic dairy farm.

If you look at this at the chicken level.....and I am basing thing on my knowledge which could be slightly off one way or another but you get the idea.

An organic egg could be from a de'beack-ed hen, in a tiny cage with many other chickens, never see the light of day but fed organic feed (I don't know that there are any requirements for space constraints or outdoor access for an organic bird, I believe that is "free range" which is also misleading).

A non organic chicken could spend its life pecking around in the grass and dirt outside in the sun, being fed food scraps.

Do a fat / nutrient analysis on those two.

of course what does that leave you with
1) Grow your own stuff
2) Have your own chickens
3) Buy local when you can and you know and like the farmer
4) Otherwise buy organic if that is what you want to do

Another example we just bought a bulk bag of turtle beans. WE could buy from a farmer in Vermont who uses pesticides or an organic farm out in California or something. Tough decision but I don't know this farmer in VT, but we know they use some pesticide, NOT because he's NOT certified organic, but because the store who vetted him out did the research for us. We went with the organic until we can go talk to this guy and ask him about how he does things, but in general, NOT certified organic, doesn't mean it's not "organic."

Of course there is the whole thing that so much "regular" food is artificially low in price due to subsidies. So there you have your cheap everything and it makes the price of real food look so much higher.

If you don't want to make growing and eating and or buying your food a big part of your life then you can just spend more money and go to whole foods and buy certified organic everything.
but we think there is a lot more to it than that.

You have also brought up another point, Buying local. Usually a win win.

[haggardhouseelf]

Originally Posted by whirnot

You have also brought up another point, Buying local. Usually a win win.

I agree - usually when I must choose between organic but from someplace else, or local but not certified organic... I'll go with local!

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by haggardhouseelf

I agree - usually when I must choose between organic but from someplace else, or local but not certified organic... I'll go with local!

Absolutely.

I have asked some of our customers at two different Markets, and overwhelmingly they prefer 'local' to C.O.

I am organic, and I am a member of our state's Organic Certifying organization, but I am not C.O.

It is not worth the extra cost and effort when our customers don't want it.

[Big George]

I'm wondering if the pro-organic folks have thought about the following scenario...

You live in a northern area. You are buying seasonal organic produce, out of season.

Do you wonder where that "organic" produce is coming from, how long ago it was harvested, how many days/weeks it has been sitting in a truck or warehouse or grocery store?

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by Big George

I'm wondering if the pro-organic folks have thought about the following scenario...

You live in a northern area. You are buying seasonal organic produce, out of season.

Do you wonder where that "organic" produce is coming from, how long ago it was harvested, how many days/weeks it has been sitting in a truck or warehouse or grocery store?

I live in a relatively 'Northern' area [Central Maine].

I am an organic food producer.

I see a lot of eggs, honey, carrots, apples, beets, leeks, and a few other things.

Plus frozen fiddleheads

If it was not harvested this week, then it has been in a rootcellar since it was harvested.

[Big George]

Originally Posted by forest beekeeper

I live in a relatively 'Northern' area [Central Maine].

I am an organic food producer.

I see a lot of eggs, honey, carrots, apples, beets, leeks, and a few other things.

Plus frozen fiddleheads

If it was not harvested this week, then it has been in a rootcellar since it was harvested.

Right. But I'm referring more to things such as fresh lettuce, spinach, beans, etc.


By the way, I'm just a little jealous of you. I assume - because of your username - you have bees. I would LOVE to be able to keep a couple hives, but alas, we live next door to an elementary school. Probably not a good combination!

[haggardhouseelf]

Originally Posted by Big George

I'm wondering if the pro-organic folks have thought about the following scenario...

You live in a northern area. You are buying seasonal organic produce, out of season.

Do you wonder where that "organic" produce is coming from, how long ago it was harvested, how many days/weeks it has been sitting in a truck or warehouse or grocery store?

I'm in Western Oregon. It's rainy, cold, and wet most of the year. We have a short growing season. You'd be amazed at what grows in winter! Especially in greenhouses and indoors with grow light set-ups and hydroponics....

And as far as leafy greens... salad greens, kale, spinach, watercress, arugula, etc... you can grow those in a sunny kitchen window. There are youtube videos that show you all kinds of ways to grow your own greens indoors. Even some people who hooked up a system that hangs in a window using a drip water system and recycled 2-liter soda bottles (though personally it weirds me out the idea of growing my food in that kind of plastic...)

[haggardhouseelf]

Originally Posted by forest beekeeper

I live in a relatively 'Northern' area [Central Maine].
Plus frozen fiddleheads

Ha ha!! I think I saw some of those on my walks this week. We've had a tiny bit of snow and it has been cooooold... (for this native Texan, anyway! lol)

[Big George]

Originally Posted by haggardhouseelf

I'm in Western Oregon. It's rainy, cold, and wet most of the year. We have a short growing season. You'd be amazed at what grows in winter! Especially in greenhouses and indoors with grow light set-ups and hydroponics....

And as far as leafy greens... salad greens, kale, spinach, watercress, arugula, etc... you can grow those in a sunny kitchen window. There are youtube videos that show you all kinds of ways to grow your own greens indoors. Even some people who hooked up a system that hangs in a window using a drip water system and recycled 2-liter soda bottles (though personally it weirds me out the idea of growing my food in that kind of plastic...)

Right. Yes, that's part of my point.

The "green crowd" that I hear the most cacophonous comments from are against ANYTHING not grown "naturally" - thus, they would stridently object to food grown in greenhouses, etc. And they would HATE hydroponics. "Natural or nothing!"

I just wonder if they've really thought the whole thing through.